Top Integrative Doctor Explains “Cortisol Addiction” | Jaban Moore

Now we're having an unsafe feeling response. That unsafe feeling generates more cortisol and then you're toxic so you create another immune response and it becomes a self-perpetuating problem even if you moved out of the mold. That's the toxin loop. Dr. Jaban Moore, welcome to my podcast. >> Thanks for having me on here. I run labs, I ask questions and so I figure out how we can get results. I work with the people that can't find answers, get to [music] be the detective that we all were trying to be when we were kids.

We're still not strong enough to survive alone, we still need help. If you're still living in a bubble, there's something missing. Bubble life is great but like that can't be ideal. I'm not even convinced that the feeling worse part of healing is a good sign. I had a six-pack, I weighed 200 lb at 5' 10", like I was fit as could be looking but I felt awful. You can't run yourself ragged because it's not a better option for long-term success anyway cuz you're going to end up crashing. >> [music] >> Dr. Jaban Moore, welcome to my podcast.

Thanks for having me on here. I'm very excited about this. I found you on Instagram about a year and a half ago, maybe maybe more actually, maybe two and started following you because everything I've seen you put out seems pretty spot on. Um and I had some like mold serious mold issues, a bunch of other issues that my audience is well aware of and knows like ah, this is the kind of doctor that I probably could have used and didn't have access to. So before we get started, can you give a brief background about what it is you do and who you are? So Dr. Jaban Moore, I have a clinic in Kansas City, Missouri but I work virtually with people around the world.

And what I do honestly, somebody said it to me the the other day, they're like you're just a detective. You're just a health care detective. And it was kind of funny because I didn't think of it that way. But what I do is I run labs, I ask questions, and so I figure out how we can get results, and then we confirm those results again back with the labs and everything else we're doing. So, I work with complex chronic illness, Lyme disease, mold. I work with radioactive element toxicities, and this can all lead to MCAS, and I'll just call it the longs because everyone's like, "Well, what about long COVID?" I'm like, "Well, I dealt with Lyme, and chronic Lyme is long Lyme, and Epstein-Barr that is chronic is long Epstein-Barr.

So, this whole concept of a infection being around for a while is like, I just work with the mystery people. I work with the people that can't find answers, and I have a lot of fun doing it because I get to be the detective that we all were trying to be when we were kids. Yeah. That makes sense. So, do all these um when you're tackling like someone with long COVID versus Lyme, let's say, are the protocols completely different, or is the underlying like inflammatory problem fairly similar? So, >> [sighs] >> in my mind, there is a lot of similarities to it, but it but no two people end up with the same exact path forward, and that's, you know, it doesn't sound like I am making anything any real statement there, but what I'm saying is what you have to do with somebody is you have to figure out what burdens are not allowing their body to feel well. And everybody's burdens are different, whether that be childhood trauma, whether that be a toxin like uranium in your water supply, or mold in your walls, or some sort of food poisoning that led to a SIBO and an H. pylori, but the reality is I had Lyme disease.

I'm not afraid to go outside and get bit by a tick. I don't think I'm going to get Lyme anymore because I've also developed a healthy body and terrain to where it's very difficult to get me sick. So, when I when I think of these complex chronic illnesses, I'm just going, "Well, what made you vulnerable enough to get it?" And some of that can be even genetics, some of that can be your mindset about life. All of this creates a situation where you're using energy for something. So, why did your energy go for um whatever stressing you on the day that you get bit by the tick versus going to defend you? If I can figure out what that is and get rid of some of those burdens, you're going to get well.

Okay. That makes sense to me. That seems to be what I think happened like to me and to my family and I think mold was the initial like the major burden. I'm not sure what else there was, but like mold was a big one. Our house in Toronto and all the houses my dad's ever been in really were were impacted by mold. Um what's your Like how did you get into this? Did you go the like integrative You're you'd be considered an integrative doctor, right? >> Yeah.

Did you go that route initially or were you in mainstream initially? So, when I was 5 years old, I told my parents I was going to go to Harvard, become a doctor, and play in the NFL like every kid. I had a lot of dreams. So, I wanted to be a doctor and I realized when I was in school cuz I wanted to do sports, right? I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. I was like, "Man, I feel like that's the end of someone's career. You blow an ACL."

And yeah, and science is advancing and people are recovering from ACLs, but back in 2004, ACL was kind of the end. Achilles was kind of the end. I'm like, "I don't want to do that. I want to be able to help people." So, I I went in to school thinking like I want to be able to help people get back on the field. Then I ended up Lyme disease when I was in school and my brain started getting foggy and my joints started hurting and I started I'm more fatigue than I ever had. And I was 25.

And I was the fittest I'd ever been in my entire life. So, for a lot of people they're like, "Well, I don't look sick, so nobody believes me." I'm like, "I didn't either. I had a six-pack. I weighed 200 lb at 5'10. Like, I was fit as could be looking." But I felt awful.

So, I lived that. And then at the time in 2012-ish, when I was dealing with the peak of this, I had erectile dysfunction, all these issues. You couldn't just go on Instagram and be like, "I have disease, mold, this symptom." And then pop up 500 doctors to try and go navigate between. It was I was at functional medicine conferences saying, "I have these symptoms." And somebody goes, "Have you ever thought of Lyme?" And I was like, "Yeah, who do you know?"

And they're like, "I have no idea." There was just not There wasn't podcasts like this where you could just go find experts. And and that's where it really pushed me to research for myself. Finally found a guy in Wisconsin, drove from Kansas City to Wisconsin through a blizzard, which sounds like a story from your grandpa. And >> [laughter] >> I finally pulled up to the doctor's house. He asked to bring the tractor out to clear the road, because I was actually at his like personal home on a hill on a blueberry farm in Wisconsin. What a story, right?

And I get in there and he's like, "Yep, you know, after he checked me out, he's like, "You got Lyme, you got Bartonella, you got Babesia. Uh he's like, "I'm also picking up on mold toxicity." And he was able to give me a path forward. And then he just started referring to me. Because back then virtual doctors didn't exist. So, like my first day in practice, he's referring complex chronic Lyme patients to me. >> Oh, yeah. >> And in 2013, that was the worst. And that was That was my beginning.

That's where it came from. So, I was I had no patients but complex chronic illness. So, all I had to focus on all day was figuring out how to get them well. Wow. Okay, that that's early. Like I started doing like dietary intervention completely randomly not cuz anyone told me to do it just being like well I might as well remove diet as a potential factor in like my illnesses in 2015. And at that time I think like Mark Hyman was kind of there was like Mark's Daily Apple uh Rob Wolf was out there but like I didn't know of any of these words like paleo keto and I definitely couldn't find a doctor.

Um but 2013 yeah, that that's a while ago. That's cool. Okay, so what do you do when you see a patient? Do you you would take a health history and then do a whole bunch of tests? Well yeah, actually a little different. We order what I call my physiology tests first. So there's an organic acid test, potentially hair tissue mineral test, a blood test if the client doesn't have those things already so that they can bring those in while we're doing their history and assessments.

And part of the reason for that is I just listened to the clients coming in is they're just like well you took my history what do I do now and I go well we run labs and they were getting frustrated. Yeah, yeah. So I actually run the labs with it. I tell them to bring in all their labs but my history yes we do the what happened to you that caused this but I also go did you have trauma in your past? Did you have any symptoms that were unusual to you when you were 5 years old such as eczema or psoriasis or this or that? Because I'm looking at questions to ask that brings up potential for a genetic snip or a potential moldy house. So people that tell me that they were a little more anxious as a kid or they have a propensity to be more A type or people pleasing or perfectionistic.

It starts to tell me about their genetics and some of the wiring that may take energy from them. Ah. And it doesn't It doesn't mean it's a bad thing, right? I'm pretty A type. I'm always trying to go and go and go and go and work. But that takes energy. And if mold is crushing your mitochondria, you don't have the energy to do that, but that's who you are.

So then you drive yourself completely into the ground. So a lot of the people I see like >> Yeah. Okay. I don't want to hear this exactly, but you Okay. So yeah, I'll see somebody that's like a real estate investor and they're like, "Man, I was crushing it. I had 17 businesses and this huge portfolio and then I just crashed and burned." I'm like, "Okay."

And this is just happened to a guy that I was seeing in Switzerland last week and he And come to find out after we ran all those tests and did all of his history, he ran through life like a wrecking ball. Until he moved into the wrong apartment. Yeah. >> him 2 years to break. So he didn't even notice that he was breaking until he broke. Like so many people with that type of personality. So I'm always trying to get those factors because that helps me to frame what test even go run, what second steps to even try, and how to communicate to my client cuz people that are like that, they'll do everything. They'll do the crazy diets.

They'll do the 18,000 different therapies every day. They'll want to take more supplements. And what they need is rest. They need to slow down. >> Imagine your favorite lecture, dial that up on max, put that on steroids, and then add some cinematic elements to it. That's the best way I could describe a Peterson Academy lecture. There's always that one professor [music] who's like, "Oh man, you know, you got to take this one professor. They're the best."

But at Peterson Academy, it's all of those that one professor. I'm still paying off college from 10 years [music] ago and I'm also I'm questioning the value that I got out of college. >> It's very common nowadays for students to be in thousands [music] and thousands of dollars of debt. It breaks my heart the interest rates that are just going to keep on piling up on them for an education that doesn't entirely serve them. >> You uh stuck in the room, you have to do a particular set of courses, and I have to convince [music] myself to stay focused. It's just pretty dry. >> With Peterson Academy, it's a fraction of the cost, and you get access to all these different topics. >> It goes anything from sciences, nutrition, why we get sick, all the way up to history, tons of courses, tons of [music] really good lecturers. >> I'm always looking for high-quality educational content. Peterson Academy provides it all. >> The instructors [music] are amazing. They're so well-known in their field that you just want to pay attention. The more I access, the more I listen, the more I learn, the more I want to learn.

I just keep expanding, and I just want more. >> Traditional university can sometimes grind you down. Peterson Academy will be able to scratch [music] that itch of you wanting to learn and continuing to grow as a person. I can't wait to see where Peterson [music] Academy goes. There's just so much potential, and it's just the beginning. >> I went to college [music] because I had to. I go to Peterson Academy because I want to. >> You just kind of have to focus on what's [music] going to actually change your life. Stop paying attention to what things are supposed to look like and actually aim for something, and you might just stumble across something like Peterson Academy. Okay, I've been wondering this cuz like I've got a couple of friends that are like extremely high achievers, and I've been like and that get chronically ill, and I'm like are you burnt out?

Now, I know burnout, I feel like is talked about in a way where people don't take it seriously, where it's like take some time off, but then I've been doing more research into mitochondrial dysfunction, and I'm like cuz I was burnout at a mitochondrial level, right? There's just like not enough energy, and you actually do need to stop and rest. So, what do you tell what do you tell people that are in that situation? What does stop and rest look like? So, it it depends on the person and I'm very driven by data because that's just the way that my brain works, honestly. I want data, I want reproducible evidence, I want to be able to show you in front of you because people that are high achievers, they and this can be a a stay-at-home mom, by the way, because they're achieving at such a high level of running the house, taking care of their family, taking care of their kids. This doesn't have to be an entrepreneur.

This is just a person that's a go. They're just on the go. So, what I look at is this. I go, give me your personality just by talking. Sometimes it's just the first conversation and the way they filled out my paperwork, I can tell it. And then we start looking at their labs. So, let's start with blood labs.

If you have a albumin, which is a protein in your CMP, your your comprehensive metabolic panel, that is above 4.6, I'm going to start thinking, okay, your body is showing me signs of becoming dehydrated. None of these people don't drink water. It seems like they're all drinking their water. Has nothing to do with water intake. It's their minerals are being burnt out cuz their body's running at such a high level that they can't keep up with basic minerals, sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium in their body. Then you start looking at ALT and AST, which are liver markers, your basic liver panel. And everybody gets worried when it's high.

Sure, that's true. It's your you have a toxicity, a liver stress problem. What happens if you go down into the single digits and you're low? Your liver's not keeping up. Your creatinine what if that goes high? Liver kidney damage. Most of these people aren't there, either.

They're going into the low, so their muscle, heart, and their kidneys aren't producing enough creatinine to come out of their body, so I know they're not detoxing well anymore. Their body's slowing down. So, this is just basic blood panel. I'm not even going into the depth of like fun labs. I'm going like the stuff that you have from every physical you've ever done. And then we can look at GFR and kidneys and a lot of these people also their kidneys are not in failure but they're sub what I think they should be. So if you're 35 years old, 40 years old, you should be easily above 90 on a GFR which is a kidney test and the CMP.

And and those are just your basic labs that I look at. I can then move over into a organic acid test. And you mentioned mitochondrially fatigue, mitochondrial stress and you can see markers in a test of there for do they have mold or bacteria or yeast in their body but that's a a cause, right? Those can be root cause problems. We're just talking about how do I see if their body is depleted. So do you have an issue where your Krebs cycle, how you break down carbs or your beta oxidation cycle, how you break down fat aren't producing energy properly. >> And how do you test that? That's the organic acid >> test.

How how can that how does that test that? Do you like >> So they're looking for organic acids. So your body produces proteins and peptides and all these things that are all over the internet, right? And you pee them out. So they're just looking for those acids as they come out and then there's an average that you're supposed to have. So if it's not there then then they they they tell that to you. Oh, interesting. >> So your mitochondria, if you go way back to middle school and and if you don't remember from middle school like most people don't, get on chat GPT and just look up Krebs cycle.

It's going to pop up this big circle and it's just going to show you all these different parts of of the cycle such as the citric acid cycle is also another name for it. And as you go through the cycle there's different particulars have different names and if your body gets stuck in one of those then you're probably not making energy as well. And you need certain minerals such as magnesium to be able to turn that cycle. You need NAD which is a popular peptide for increasing energy. Because if that cycle isn't turning you don't make energy. So I'm going to go look, can you make enough energy to do all the things you want to do? No, well makes sense why you're tired.

Makes sense why you brain fog. Makes sense why you have post-exertion fatigue. And I'm going through all that. Then you go into a hair test. Um and when you get into a hair test, simply a lot of these people have been burning the candle at both ends, and they now have a lack of minerals. So, on the test it's like ideal right here in the middle of the the good range, and they're sub the reference range for all the minerals. And if you don't have minerals, basic minerals, sodium, potassium, when you stand up, you're going to get fatigued.

You're going to have POTS. You're going to have dysautonomia. You're going to be fatigued. You're not going to have motivation because minerals are required to function. And this is the basis of all things. It's It's something that in school it's such a simple thought process, but we skip beyond it because we want to go run C4A and MMP-9 and VIP for mold testing. We want to do all the cool tests, and we skip the basics that just tell you your body's depleted.

So, when I see these markers, I'm like, "Hey, look. One, let's get more minerals in. Let's just give your body what it's depleted of. Yes, you're going to continue to deplete until we remove the root causes, but I also need you to do less, not more, because if you go sweat, you're going to sweat out your minerals. If you go sit in infrared sauna and I force you to detox, there goes more minerals. If I do some sort of big detox protocol on you where it makes you pee more often, there's more minerals. Also, it takes energy to detox.

That's why people get tired when they detox. So, I can't ask a person in bankruptcy to give me more money. I can't ask you when you're energy bankrupt to go do more stuff without finding a way to take other things away from you to give you energy back to do it. Okay, have you had I mean, that that that totally makes sense. Have you had patients and this is where my family falls in. Have you had patients that can't seem to to things easily? So, magnesium seems to be a problem and B vitamins are a huge problem.

Yeah. And it's like, well, you need magnesium. Like, none of the levels seem low, but why would that happen? Is that a Like, have you had patients that are like that? And is that a genetic I like my dad and I have similar symptoms. So, if I can't take something, I'll have a reaction to it, and he'll have a reaction that's 10 times as bad. But, it's the exactly the same things, and they they seem seemingly random to begin with.

It's like B vitamins, zinc is an issue, magnesium's an issue. We're trying to figure out if it's genetic, we've like run genetic panels, or if it's um psych med damage, which I think is playing a role, but like what do you do with those people that are like, oh, like, I can't take some of these basic things? So, whether you are genetically prone to something, your MTHFR, or one of the many genes that are associated to B vitamin issues, whether you're diagnosed MCAS, multiple chemical sensitivities, whatever whatever terminologies out there, it simply comes down to I can't tolerate this thing that my body requires to function. Yeah. Like, you have magnesium in your body, or you wouldn't be here. Yeah, yeah. >> B12 in your body, or you wouldn't be here. So, you're not allergic to it.

It's also not a protein to be able to create an allergenic reaction. >> Yeah. So, that's not what it is. Yeah. So, then I go, okay, if we just step back from the it's so frustrating for you as the patient and me as the doctor to have this happening. You just step back away from that for a moment, lose the ego, and you just go, okay, we know it's in their body, we know they need it. What possibly could be going on, besides the fact that they're having an allergy reaction, which is absolutely not it? Magnesium turns the wheel of the mitochondria.

B12 is required to turn the wheel of the mitochondria. If I give you energy, what is your body doing with that energy? If I give you nutrients, such as it's well known iodine can displace uranium or mercury or things like that in your body. Uh So, if I give you something, what are we either displacing or what are you using the energy to do that would trigger a reaction? That's what it that's what happens. Like with the magnesium and the B vitamins, it's not an allergic reaction. It's like influx of energy Mhm. and then it's like, oh, that feels good.

And then it's like, now I can't sleep for 3 days and now it's it's really bad. >> Yeah. Um magnesium's a bit different, but it's the same kind of it it's really like insomnia agitation. And so there's like there's something wrong with the energy part. Well, yes and no. So, remember what you said and by no means am I a a psychiatrist that's prescribing a bunch of drugs for mental health, but you mentioned psych drug problems. So, if you get a bunch of psych drugs and I send them into your system, and you said damage, but let's just say it's accumulation. So, you've got in your interstitial space, you in your fat cells and different places, even on the receptor sites themselves, a bunch of psych drugs that haven't been cleaved off because well, what's going to do that?

Magnesium, iodine, maybe B12 is going to help produce a detox reaction intracellularly. So, when I give you these things, your body goes, oh, okay, and starts to at low at at let's call it normal people doses, what I would take, it starts turning the mechanisms on to clear you out. You start to detox. Well, if your body's identified these drugs now to be a problem or they caused you insomnia, which many of those drugs or those chemicals, pharmaceuticals do cause sleep problems, especially if they're dumped into your system, then is it maybe not a it's just a detox reaction. It's a good thing, but it It horrible. So, then what do you do? Do you have to give the right amount of binder with a teeny tiny amount of magnesium B12 and slowly build up over time, which I've done this with patients before where somebody came in like, "I can't do B12.

I can't do NAC. I can't do glutathione." Well, when I removed all the other toxicities that weren't the thing that was triggering this, cuz I've had people come in and told me that those things cause them to have seizures. So I got to be real careful. And I'm like, "Okay, we're not going to just like here a whole bunch of it, but if I can remove the stress responses around it, decrease the histamine response, because what you're ending up with is probably not a septic response, which is a Herxheimer reaction. You're not septic. So it's not a detox reaction. >> Yes.

It's more likely an immune response, a histamine reaction. >> Yeah. So your body is having a mast cell degranulation, an immune system cell dumping all the stuff inside of it that are inflammatory agents that lead you to feeling awful. So I can decrease that, which is why you eating a meat diet feels good, cuz you decrease histamine response. You took out all your histamine foods if you're not eating aged meat. >> Mhm. And then you're taking out all the oxalates and other irritants, so that's gone. So you're now really anti-inflammatory. And then you bring in things like a thymosin alpha, a KPV, a BPC 157. >> KPV, I love.

That's my favorite peptide. That that helps modulate your immune response. So you're If you can bring those down, you can even do an LDN. You can do natural things, but sometimes in those extreme cases, quercetin, stinging nettle, rosemary, bromelain aren't enough. Sometimes Sometimes they are. Uh DAO supplements, I'll stack these things together with my medical team. And what we end up doing is we suppress your likelihood of having those reactions so you can just move faster.

Some people want to do it naturally, so we just go slower. And if we bring in little bits of magnesium after removing the irritants, then slowly you just start to cleave off all the mercury, the uranium, the whatever it is that your toxicity problem. And I've seen it over and over and over again with people, you know, it was uranium because they lived in a house with radioactive water that came through the tap plus radon in their basement. Yeah. >> Um and and that uranium was on their thyroids, so they had Hashimoto's thyroid autoimmunity, they had depression and anxiety and anytime you started to even tap into that, their weight would skyrocket with inflammation and they'd start feeling like they were gaining weight, they'd have major depressive swings, their cycles would be thrown off. So, I had to do it at a slow enough pace while binding it after we reduced the likelihood of having the immune reaction and then over a a period of several months, they were able to get rid of the majority of it. And then now they can take as much in that case iodine, which was the biggest trigger for them and B12. They can take as much as they wanted, you know, within Interesting.

How often do you see like uranium and these kind of like heavy metal issues? Is that common? Cuz like psych meds caused a problem that I think is still lingering, but that was 10 years ago. And then I've been on a meat diet for like 8 years and I've been careful about my environment for four. So, it's like why would I still have these issues? And then for dad, it's like 10x whatever's happening to me, but like um So, that makes me think it's long-term psych med damage, honestly, especially from other people I've spoken with, but I haven't done the like I've done blood work for heavy metals and they didn't show anything. Do you do other tests?

Do you do the hair? You're laughing. Why are you laughing? Blood work for heavy metals is useless. Oh, okay, that's great. It is completely useless unless it is a current and massively significant problem. Like I'm not talking about a little bit.

I'm talking about like, you're being poisoned and right now. Not last year. Because your body is amazing at adapting, right? Like, you throw your back out, what do you do? You lean to the side and you just keep moving for a lot of people. You You roll your ankle, you just start putting your weight on the other side on your other leg and you turn your foot and you just adapt. People are great at adapting.

What are we really bad at? Getting back to optimal. So, if if you just look at it from the physiologic, when I rolled my ankle and I start walking funny, I'm probably never going to change that back unless somebody puts me through physical therapy to correct that and then I wear out another joint. Well, what's happening inside your body, it sounds like and I don't know anything about all your labs, but it sounds like psych med created a shift and adaptation in your body. You did work to get away from it. You are now doing things to keep your body strong. What has not been done is rehabilitating how your body responds to magnesium and B12 and all these other things, likely because of the second part.

Your body cleaned up enough that you can get back to normal-ish, right? Like, if you're doing all these other things you're still not feeling well, then you're not normal, but you're normal-ish. But what it never did was go, "Well, now that I'm feeling normal, I can actually start go back to cleaning out all the extra stuff that's in my intracellular fluids and spaces and you know, in my fat cells. We're just going to leave that alone and I'm going to go live and survive life." Because that's what the body doesn't do well. So then, you know, that's one part of your question. Your other part was, "How often do I see a toxin problem?"

Metals, uranium, radium, all the time. I don't think that's the only problem. But what you mentioned to me was mold, metals, and drugs that let's just call all of those toxins different kinds of toxins. And then Lyme is an infection. That's a whole different thing. >> Yeah. Now, mold can be an infection. You can be colonized by it.

And I have had people come into my clinic that have been through some really amazing doctors and EDTA and DMSA and and carnivore and all sorts of other diets and vegan diets on top of the carnivore diet back and forth and all the drugs and all the protocols and they you know, different things were missed for different people. But I've had people who are still drinking radioactive water because the only way to remove that is to distill it if you're drinking it. If it's in your tap, the only way to remove it from the tap is distilling. That's it. There's no way to filter that. No filter, just to be clear, filter can remove it well for very long. RO is your best filter Okay. because it's a a filter that has really tiny holes and you've got to use energy to force stuff through and it will get 90% of of metals when it's brand new and it degrades over time.

So, if you're in a place that has a lot of it, it will degrade more rapidly and because again, you're using a filter, so a porous non-strong material that you're using force to shove something through, it's going to tear over time. Yeah. >> at 90% at your best and it's degrading over the length of time you're using it. I'm talking about like weeks, not years. Wow. That's not good. And then the other part is distilling it is evaporation. So, you evaporate from one tank to another tank and then you filter it.

So, those metals that are very hard are left in the tank because their melting temperature is different than water. So, they're going to stay when water evaporates. What it What will go with it is VOCs and phthalates and that sort of stuff because it melts or around the time water does. So, then you have to filter it, which is where the filter part comes in. And as I've just I've learned so much about water and toxins because I get those weird cases where I had a very rich family, there were seven of them chronically ill from mold, all of them still sick, drinking radioactive water, they'd all been to some of the best doctors cuz they could afford it. Yeah. >> And then they come in to me and I'm like, well, one thing we're missing is the water. Three of them got better within the first month.

And I was like, well, that's cool. The other four did not. They had way more stuff going on that was still left over. Even they they'd been through some really good protocols, but their body wasn't strong enough to keep everything at bay while they were still drinking the water. So, I had to go back and deal with the Lyme and parasites and SIBOs because the radioactive elements allowed those things to keep surviving even with doing amazing protocols, antibiotics, and antifungals, and natural protocols, and IVs, and and all of this stuff. So, when someone comes to me, I I have to step back and just look at, well, where was the miss? Because something was missed.

Even if I'm not getting you well, and we've been four or five months in, I'm like, where's my miss? Like, we've done enough work, you should be getting well. Where's my miss? What did I not do right? What is it about you that I didn't see? Let's rerun some labs. Let's go check something different.

You know, like, okay, your physiology is getting better here, but this marker is not. Okay, well, I had one client that I worked with for two years, she gotten like 90% better, and then all of a sudden her gut flared back up and I run her labs and mold's back. I'm like, what did you do? What happened? Oh, I moved. Crap. >> [laughter] >> She didn't tell me because she thought she did a good job with the looking through the apartment this and that, and then we ran it and there's place had a little bit of mold and I'm like, well, at least we know why. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, like, you're constantly just being the detective.

Uh, so, I know I went all over the place. No, that was cool. That was cool. When I first went on the like the paleo diet, changed my life. That's when I stopped taking all my medications and I was like, it very limited. It wasn't the paleo diet. It was like meat and vegetables, no eggs, no dairy.

It was basically just meat and vegetables and a few fruit and it like fixed me. And that was the first step um and then I stopped taking psych meds over a period of 2 weeks after 12 years. No. And I had 2 and 1/2 years of like crazy crazy horrifying symptoms that I attributed to my diet and food reactions because I was having such severe severe neurological reactions to food that I was like, "Oh my gosh, how is this my reaction to soy now? How is this my reaction to dairy?" And then it kind of went away the severe reactions after 2 and 1/2 years and it took me another year to figure out, "Oh, that was actually antidepressant withdrawal that I didn't even know existed." >> Um and then I've gone down the mold route cuz I got sick in Miami and then I met this doctor that did like a parasite testing. >> Mhm. And I had H. pylori which was picked up on GI maps a number of times but all the doctors I'd been to said, "Well, the levels aren't crazy high, just ignore it.

You don't have any symptoms." And it was like, "Well, I only eat meat so maybe that's one of the symptoms." But I I didn't have like acid reflux or GERD or anything or burning. Um and treating H. pylori like fixed my digestion. Mhm. And I was [clears throat] And that was the classic I did like quad therapy but I think I replaced metronidazole cuz that doesn't make me feel good with um some kind of equivalent. Um but like that fixed me so like the longer I've been doing this the more I realize there like you can do one thing and have it work really well.

Like the carnivore diet saved my life. Like I I went from disabled to being able to run like multiple businesses, have kids, like a bunch of things when I addressed mold. I had fertility issues actually when I lived in mold on on the carnivore diet that I couldn't figure out that resolved as soon as I fixed mold but like it's definitely multi-faceted and then you think, "Well, what's at the bottom? Why am I being like attacked from so many different angles? Like, there are a lot of people that live in moldy houses that would make me sick that are doing okay. I can't say it's good for their health, but they're not flattened. Or people who are exposed to Lyme, and they don't get chronic Lyme.

Mhm. So, like, what's going on? And then I recently I've been like, well, is it like is it vaccines? I've never been on the like anti-vaccine train, but at a certain point after doing this for 10 years, it's like, is there something wrong with my immune system at a foundational level that's just different? Um, so do you have any like, is that a thing? Because at some point it's like, well, is it my immune system, you know, rather than all these toxins I'm exposed to? Well, there's two points that I wanted to bring up.

One, when you go to a functional medicine doctor, regular doctor, whoever else, you have to consider what they're doing and how it's affecting your labs, or any other information that you're trying to pull from, right? So, if if you're a diabetic and you're on a bunch of diabetic meds and your blood sugar looks good, it doesn't mean you're not diabetic. So, I'm not going to pull you off of all your diabetic medication because your labs look good when you come in, which is what happens so often with people that are already doing all these healthy things. So, for you, you had changed your diet to paleo, done all of this stuff, then you went to the doctor and he's like, yeah, your H. pylori doesn't look bad. Well, yeah, because I'm managing it with my lifestyle. So, if you come to me and you're already eating a really strict amazing diet, and you're already doing all these anti-inflammatory things, you just took a bunch of parasite protocols, antibiotics, antifungals, of course I'm not going to expect you to have a bunch of stuff out of range when it comes to those infections that you just treated. Yeah.

So, then if it's at a lower level, but still not normal, I'm like, well, yes and no, like, this might still be a thing. You're on the borderline, and I'll put it in what I call my road map, and I'll put question marks next to it, so that I keep it in mind. It's like not yes, but it's not no, it's let's let's keep it in mind. So, that's a part of what's going on for why maybe you're having a hard time getting straight answers because people are looking at your labs thinking well, this isn't it. But for you, your markers might look different because of everything you're doing or done or you know, living in the perfect homes, etc. Living in a bubble. Yeah. >> good.

Like I'm doing well um other than stress that I can't really do much about, but like I'm doing well. But if I deviate at all, I'm very ill. So, it's like bubble life is great, but like that can't be ideal, and I don't know if that's good when I'm like when I'm 50 or 60, is my body going to be able to keep all that under control if I get exposed to like walk through a moldy building or like someone breathes on me or something? No, and I have a lot of people that come into my clinic and and they they look they're doing the same thing, and I'm just like, look, I I I love what you're doing, but it it will not last. >> Yeah. You will eventually break. Like I don't care how strong-willed you are, you will eventually want to have a burger or a beverage or Not me. or go on a vacation or >> Whatever it is, you will eventually want to do something that doesn't agree with where you are. >> Yeah. And it also means that if you have to be that perfect It's not yeah. >> just floating near the line, and if you're always about to break, that line isn't going to where you're becoming more adaptable, it's shrinking, and then you're doing something more to keep yourself alive, and then it shrinks, and you do something more to keep yourself alive all the time at your current threshold because there's something burdening you so much.

Mhm. So, when I tell people, like, look, my goal is not to tell you you have to do this, but an example is I had a woman that came in, she was chronic Lyme, her thyroglobulin antibodies was 7,000, so she was Hashimoto's. She had markers that were associated with breast cancer. She was nearly blind from the amount of floaters and things that was in her vision. >> And I got her to a point where it was like three or four months in. She actually came along pretty rapidly. We I This was like 13, 14 years ago, like right in the early part of my practice. And her functional medicine MD, and when I say functional medicine MD at the time, it was just like his first go wasn't meds.

It was It was diet or lifestyle. And this was, you know, way long ago where that was like an amazing step forward for a lot of doctors. And he ran her thyroglobulin right before she started with me, and then three, four months in, and we just done a few more natural treatments for Lyme, and they dropped from 7,000 antibodies to 2,000 antibodies. Great. Huge change. When I I I told her, "My goal is for you to be able to do the things you want to do." I'm a I'm a Kansas City boy, so Chiefs fan.

We go out, we want to barbecue. A lot of guys are wanting to have a beer. They're wanting to eat nachos. I'm like, "It's not I'm not telling you that you should go do that, but I want you to be able to do that without having more than like a I feel a little inflamed the next day kind of repercussion. Yeah. I want your body that adaptable." >> Yes. So, she came in, and we'd gotten her to the point where she was well.

She was back to work, vision clear, antibodies down to under 200. I mean, she was really happy. It was like her 20th anniversary with her husband, and they were going back to Chicago where her um like one of their first dates was, and she used to drink a beer there, and just sit and like, you know, fawn over each other. And she's like, "I'm I'm so excited to go back, and I feel good, but I'm sad I'm not going to be able to drink a beer." I'm like, "Drink the freaking beer! Oh my gosh. >> Just do it!" And she's like, "Are you Are you my doctor telling me to drink a beer?"

I'm like, "Not because I'm your doctor trying to tell you to drink a beer, but I'm saying your body's adaptable enough that if you want to do that, so she went, she had one beer, she paid no price for it, and she literally started like bawling because she was so happy that she could do that. And for you, what I'm saying is if you're still living in a bubble, there's something missing. Someone's missing something. I don't know what it is cuz I don't know all your information. Maybe that's our next podcast. I'll just read all your stuff. We'll just get it all out in front of everybody. >> okay, let's do that.

Good luck. I I have done so many I have a Google Drive folder that if like Brian Johnson didn't exist, I don't know who's done more testing than me. Like and it's just like everything looks a bit off, looks a bit better now that I did like the parasite stuff. Like the gut stuff looks better. Um But the like everything is kind of wrong. And it's like, well, Yes. So what's missing? >> is kind of wrong, it's hard to figure out where to start, especially if you can't take freaking Um >> supplements.

Well, one, you'd be able to at some point. I'm not telling you'd be easy, but there's a path forward with consistency and that's that's part of it. Um but it's also I mean I'll just tell you one of the first clients that came to me that was like from remote when I was really early in practice, she walked in and she'd been to Mayo and a bunch of other docs and she had a pamphlet of paper that was like 2 3 in thick printed because this is before you can like send it all over in a Google Drive. And my first entire hour with her was just reading to her. Like I was just reading it. I was like, well, this could be this and this could be this and well, that's interesting and and I went through and you know, her immunoglobulins were like bottomed out, so of course she tested negative to all antibody tests because she didn't have any antibodies. >> Okay. And they had diagnosed her with B6 toxicity even though it was barely over the range she didn't take it, so that meant that we had a genetic issue and she was likely dealing with mold and then we just kept going and I I able to just like kind of interpret a whole bunch of things and we wrote them all down and then by the time I got to the end, I was like, "Well, here's a bunch of misses and here's what we're missing on information."

And and then we weren't going to run some of those things and we just slowly started going through it. But for her, it wasn't that there was one big problem. It was that there was a lot of little ones. And people will get hyper fixated on mold or Lyme or parasites and they do months and months and months. What I did with her was because she already been through so much, I was like, "We're going to like 1 month of parasite and 1 month of bacteria and 1 month of Lyme and 1 month of mold because her immune system was still weak enough that it couldn't protect itself." But it was strong enough that it was doing like a triage. And I needed to get her beyond that where the adaptability cuz once you get to a point of of immune system where you are you're in the the CDR, which is cellular cell danger response state.

You attack everything immediately. Like it just immediate attack everything. >> Yeah. There's no look around and figure out, "Oh, that's magnesium. Like we could do something with that for the rest." It's just attack. Yeah. Well, I need to get you out of that where it's we're still not strong enough to survive alone.

We still need help, and which is probably where you live sometimes. But you've never gotten to, "Okay, now I can actually Because this is the thing is nothing you've done will eradicate anything." You're not trying to eradicate parasites, EBV, Lyme, anything. You're not trying to eradicate anything because if you do, you'll kill yourself. You're trying to get it into a non-pathogenic state. So, you've got to get it below pathogen by what you're doing and then get your immune system strong to then take it the rest of the way. And you've never gotten to where your body will take it the rest of the way because potentially your immune system is dysregulated from the psych drug damage and you're not able to get enough nutrients in because you need magnesium and B12 to run your mitochondria, otherwise it stays in CDR.

It stays in that fight or flight response. So, you've never been able to turn the dial down enough for your body to then go and do the rest of its work. So, as soon as you take your foot off the gas of moving forward and and like detox, you start getting worse. Yeah, that seems to be pretty accurate. Like that that's pretty accurate. Like the diet I'm like hyperfunctional um with a diet mainly and with seriously avoiding mold. And it's been 3 years now since I realized that mold was an issue and I'm less intolerant than I was.

Like I can go stay in a hotel for 3 days, but by day day 3 I'm not really sleeping and I'm having heart palpitations. And it's not like in my head stress. It's like oh slowly my body's overwhelmed by the new environment. >> Yeah. And um I've tried like I've talked about this a bit on the podcast for like MCAS and just this like inflammatory state. I've tried ketotifen. I've I've tried some of the mast cell stabilizers, but as soon as I take something and feel worse, I'm just like nah. I don't want to go through the feeling worse.

I'm not even convinced that the feeling worse part of healing is a good sign. Um like do you if you are dealing with people with MCAS do you use things like ketotifen to try to calm down the immune system and do some people have bad responses first and then eventually tolerate it or do you just like microdose those people? What do you do? Yes to all of that. Yes, we microdose. Yes, we use medication. Yes, we have bad reactions.

But let me give you >> normal for for MCAS people to have bad reactions? So, are you familiar with mast cell degranulation's triggered? Like the triggering of it? Like So, the science behind it is mast cells are immune cells that carry around granules. So, that's why the degranulation of different different uh biological protective molecules. And when you are in a mast cell state, mast cell MCAS state, mast cells degranulate with like nothing. So, the worst version of mast cell is temperature change, light change, sound change, degranulation.

Touch your skin to something, degranulation. So, people come in and they're like They just do this with their arm, just run their finger along it. >> that before, diet. That's degranulation. >> or something. I could write on myself and it would like turn into hives. >> That's degranulation. It was a trick in high school. Yeah, so Look at this smiley face. Yeah.

Hives. So, if if I get you in If you're at that level of mast cell, good and bad is unrecognizable to the body. Okay. So, any change is too much cause degranulation, you feel bad. Any change. Good or bad. So, then of course you're going to have a reaction if you're trying to physiologically change the way your mast cells are responding because now they're like, "Well, if you turn me down, my organism will die."

Which is you. Mhm. So, is some bad reaction okay? Some, yes. A lot, no. So, hermetic stress is something like I go to the gym, I work out. That stress builds me stronger when I recover.

And there's a There's studies that show above 30-ish percent hermetic stress for a period of time causes damage to you that is unrecoverable. So, we want to do a recoverable state. >> Okay. So, with mast cell, I even go below that. I go 20%. So, I'm like, "If you have an increase of symptoms by more than 20%, stop." Now, as I'm going through that process, we bring in, say, low-dose naltrexone. Normal dose, 4.5 mg.

Mast cell dose, 0.25 mg. Oh, okay. >> Build up. Yeah. >> That still could cause a reaction. And I've had it happen. >> I I react to al- alden. Uh cromolyn. >> me derealization. Yeah. Well, why?

Your inflammatory responses that you have at your maximum threshold is also is psychological is your worst symptom. Yeah. So, if I'm bringing down inflammation around your brain and your brain starts to detoxify or change its inflammatory responses, is the synaptic activity going to change? I mean, I mean, eventually, I suppose. For you immediately because inflammation's changing. And you're degranulating inflammatory responses in your brain. It's It's encephalitis.

Look at it PANS PANDAS kid. Yeah. So, then how do you get around that? You got to get such microdose levels. And you have to come at it from multiple perspectives. So, if I just shut down histamines by bringing cromolyn sodium in or ketotifen in or something like that, if I just do one route, it's it's so great that your body feels threatened by a good thing and then degranulates. Mhm.

So, what if I do it at a teeny tiny amount for histamine and a teeny tiny amount for inflammation and a teeny tiny amount for immune modulation? And it doesn't feel threatened and we just slowly build that over a several months even to the point where by the time your body catches on that there was a change, it's there's it's it's already chilled and it's not going to degranulate because it's not feeling as threatened because its threat response is a lot less. Think about PTSD. If you're a guy from the military, and I've seen this in live and person, fireworks, right? If or if you slam a door on a guy that's that was in a military battle where there was bombing, a door being slammed, even though they're safe around everywhere and in their home, drop and cover. Well, your body's doing the same thing. Even though Yeah.

Magnesium's good. It's too much. Shut down. Interesting. Okay, so then let's shift gears a little bit. Um stress and trauma Like how much how much does that end up impacting your immune system? Cuz you talked about PTSD.

Um Is that really that bad? I like I know it is and I've talked to so many people about this, but like can that impact your immune system so that you start having inflammatory reactions to things from stress? And why if if so? So one of the talks that I've done was we named it the neurotoxic loop. And I've hung around and talked to uh AIs about this cuz I was just curious what the research was where I just was chatting with AI. I'm like, "Bring up research. Prove me wrong."

And out of all the research I did and looked at all these studies we're used to the concept that mold in the body is toxic and neurotoxic and when it builds up it generates a liver and neurotoxic, brain toxic, nephrotoxic, I'm toxic everywhere. Which then causes the body to release a a immune response to try and clean it up. During that period of time you release a hormone response to give you enough energy called cortisol and and adrenal hormones >> Mhm. to get your body to rev up to protect you. Which is a normal response. Eventually if it becomes long-term you can get adrenal hormone or cortisol toxic. Which is another version of a toxin. Oh, what?

What is this? Cortisol toxic? You can get toxic to your own hormones because they they accumulate. You've heard of estrogen dominance. >> Mhm. Toxic estrogen. Right? So adrenal hormones can do the same thing.

So it's driving you so hard and and it's saturating your brain with hormones that are eventually becoming toxic because they are sitting in there. Now So this is the toxic response side. Well, now you're sitting in a toxin, whether it be the mold or the adrenal toxicity, the cortisol toxicity, that tells your body that it's unsafe. So then it generates a fight or flight response back to that that mitochondrial CDR situation. It generates a response to to say, "We're in danger. We're unsafe." So it triggers more immune response to the stress that you're in.

So now we're having a a unsafe feeling response. That unsafe feeling generates more cortisol. And then you're toxic, so you created another immune response, and it becomes a self-perpetuating problem, even if you moved out of the mold. So you just generated a immune triggered internal PTSD in your body, and I'm not even talking about mental health, emotion, life trauma. So that's the toxin trauma side of it. So that's the toxin loop that can get you on that side. Well, the neuro loop can do the same thing.

If you feel unsafe because of a a parent, a spouse, you live in a war zone, whatever is causing you to feel unsafe, you release a cortisol response, so your body will get you to safety. If that cortisol response goes on too long, then you generate another immune response, or or or sorry, stress response that leads to an immune response because you get toxic to it cuz your body wants to clean it out. Mhm. >> cycle starts going, right? So it's self-perpetuating until you feel safe. Well, what did I say earlier? We're terrible at rehabilitating out of it. So I mean, I've met clients that are women that were abused, and they still can't be around men in certain types of situations.

They still don't feel safe even to this day from whatever happened to them 20 years ago. So, they're still feeling unsafe, which means their cortisol still elevated. You can see it on testing. And they're still generating this response and they end up mast cell. So, you can do this from a neurological side or you can do this from a toxin side. It doesn't really matter. And then a lot of times, unfortunately, the person with the neurological trigger or the toxin trigger puts themselves in the position to get the other.

Yeah. Because if you are in a state where you're unsafe and debilitated from mold, often times you're willing to deal with things that maybe you wouldn't dealt with if you were well. You put yourself in a relationship or a landlord situation or a work situation because you just don't have quite the capacity to protect yourself. Or if you were grew up in trauma and you move into a moldy house, you're twice as likely not to be able to tolerate it because you have so much energy over here trying to deal with the trauma on the like under the surface. You're You're spending a lot of energy dealing with that, so you can't tolerate mold as well. So, I the neurotoxic loop is something I talk about a lot because people get stuck in this self-perpetuating problem. They They leave the bad like one of the bad things, but the body is just keeping it going because it's stuck.

It feels unsafe. So, one of the conversations in my practice a lot is are you safe? Both from an environmental perspective, air, food, water, hygiene, dental, implants in the body, and are you safe mental health-wise, consciously and subconsciously, even when you are actually in a safe place? Okay. That makes sense. I think part of the issues like my family's been dealing with is there's been so much external stress that's like it's honestly like too much for someone to be stable in. Like even dad being sick now, like last summer my newborn got sick and I was like, "Nobody would be okay in this situation.

They they'd be freaking out in like 12 different ways. So, not feeling good is like there's nothing you can do about that. But, it's a tricky sicky It's tricky sicky. It's a tricky situation, I think, for chronically ill people because people who have like autoimmunity, a psychic issue, are on a bunch of medications, need taking care of, are stressing out their family, feel guilty, and then it's like the situation is bad, there are triggers for it, and then they're stuck in a situation that's also bad. It's tricky. You have a tricky job. Well, I've listened to your dad talk, and and I really respect some of the things he says, which is is so interesting with what you just said there.

And it's when you are fully functioning with a completely healthy body and brain and and stress situation, as long as you were taught and driven to to, you know, work and and have the work ethic and fight for things, when you have the full capacity to have critical thinking because you're well and you're unstressed and you're living within that, your ability to get stressed is a whole lot less. Because it doesn't ping you to the fight-or-flight state, where when you're fight-or-flight, you don't have good short-term memory, you don't have good critical thinking, you're not creative. So, when you have a lot of room for adaptation, it takes a lot more to take you down because you can just step back from it and be like, "Okay, well, if I do this, I'll solve this problem." And and, you know, listening to him, just thinking through like the world we live in and what's happening to it and where people are, if if you're already well, you can handle so much more, which is why well people in many cases can stay there better when they're conscious about it. But, when you're not and you're going through everything you've gone through, and if you have a child that's sick, you're immediately going to jump into the fight-or-flight worst-case scenario, which triggers more cortisol, which then deep dives you away from the critical thinking. Not saying you couldn't, >> Yeah. Yeah. >> but it just becomes more burden. >> it hard to It definitely makes it hard to think when you're stressed.

I think everybody listening knows that. If you're really stressed out, you cannot focus on the problem, and sometimes you can be hyper focused on that, but eventually when you get tired, Mhm. your brain's tired. So, yeah, that is what happens. So, you know, coming in to work with people, it's it's a delicate balance of I hear you. Let's work together. And when I tell them, you know, you don't have the energy to do all the things you're doing, you can imagine when these people are coming in, "Well, so-and-so said to do red light, and sauna's supposed to be good, and I want to do these peptides, and what about that med, and I need to take these 40 supplements cuz somebody said that they were going to be good for me." I'm like, "Yes to all of that.

It's all good. I can't tell you how many times I told people everything that you're on, all these recommendations you are giving are all good things. They all cost energy. Do you have excess energy to do them all? Even the sauna and red light? Sure. They all cost something.

They cost your purchasability, your time to go make sure to sit in front of them, your mental anguish of being able to do all of them, get them in in a day. >> Sauna takes for sure energy because it's hot, so your body has to try and cool you, and your detox, you're losing minerals. Red light, there's not a whole lot of lost energy. Um but sometimes it's just another burden of something else to do. I go, "They all cost something." Taking 40 supplements, I'm going to tell you right now, especially if you're not well. If you're 100% well, and you're just optimizing, and you're wanting to play around with all these different things, awesome. You know, I I interviewed Dave Asprey, and he literally took a handful of pills and threw them in his mouth, and I'm like, "That's awesome.

You're healthy." But this person over here with SIBO and H. pylori and parasites and blah blah blah, that's expensive poop. Yeah, that's been my experience. So, let me give you five to seven things targeted. Let's do like maybe one therapy outside. Let's eat well. Stop surfing the internet.

Stop going to all these Facebook pages. No, don't believe me without, you know, double-checking things if if you feel like you need to double-check cuz I'm your 20th doctor. But also, how much energy does it take to do everything you're doing in a day? Like step back from them. Just how much energy does it take? Can you cut half of the burden of the decision-making process in your gut trying to digest all these pills and And when I do that with people, and they give me enough trust to give me that for a month is all I ask for like the first at the beginning. It's like, "Just do it for a month."

Often times they're like, "Wow." Like they can just feel the lift of like less distress in their nervous system. Even though it was all good stuff. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Well, this is why I reached out because I've been following your Instagram, and I'll link your Instagram below and all the socials for everybody who's listening to like go check it out.

But all your little like catchy clips on Instagram have been like, "Yeah, that makes sense. That's what I've seen. Like that's how I feel." So, that makes sense. I don't like the take it easy part. No. But I know like I've gotten I've finally gotten to the point especially with pregnant like I feel like you see a pregnant woman doing something and you're just like, "Sit down."

Like like other people can tell. But like, yeah, being slower. And I think that's why a lot of these like celebrities that suddenly get get chronic disease and it's under whatever name, Lyme, long COVID, whatever it is, is like is part of it because you ran at like 120%, 150, 200% for like 10 years and it was too hard on your system even though like it's like your brain can do it. You're like I can do it. But you can't do it really. Your brain your brain if you're a driven person isn't operating from a position of what's optimal for my body. It's [laughter] willpower and willpower can make you do a lot of things that aren't necessarily good.

So let's just let's run down for you just for fun. Let's let's do what I do with some clients. We're going to take a $100 bank account. All right, this is going to be your energy bank account. >> Okay. $50 which is actually less than it is in reality is simply just being alive. That's your basal metabolic rate. That is you just breathing and operating. This is not getting out of bed and being a a mom, a wife, a business owner or anything else. $50 is gone.

You have $50 left. You have mold and for sure, right? You said some damage from So we're at 70. You only have 100. Now you're mom, that takes some energy, right? Yeah. That's that's $10.

Let's call it. You're a wife and a daughter. $10. At least. >> [laughter] >> All right, we'll go 15. So where are we at now? We're $45 spent for being a wife, mother, daughter and then having some previous mold and psych that's $45. We have five left. You have how many businesses?

A couple? >> yeah. Well, I know for running businesses probably another $30 or $125. Yeah. You also probably manage your home to some degree. >> Yeah. You have something that you enjoy. Right? You you do something for yourself at some point.

I don't care if that's researching or reading or whatever. So you're managing your house, you're doing that. We'll just call that $5. You're pregnant. We already know that that's $20. Yeah. So, where am I at?

I mean, we're not even talking about digesting extra supplements or doing extra therapies. I'm up at like $150 on a $100 budget. Why are you not out of fight or flight? Yeah. And maybe I'm exaggerating the numbers here, right? It's all random. But, if you start thinking about it like that, and you start just giving yourself a budget, you're a business owner.

If your business was running like this, how long until you're in bankruptcy? Yeah, pretty quick. So, then if you can step back from your own drive, and just look at your life, and go, "Well, this is going to take that much, and this is going to take this much, and this much, and this much, and this much." Not about you, but even if it was just trying to protect your child, what would you tell them to do? Yeah. You're going to change your behavior, and maybe you offload some of the tasks for the business to a staff person, and maybe you offload something that you like to do in the house as far as cooking or cleaning or whatever, to your husband, and maybe you you retool a little bit. And here's the fun part.

As you get healthier, and you remove mold, and you remove psych med damage, the amount of capacity you have starts to go up. So, like when you go to the gym, I can deadlift 600 lb. Well, if you try to deadlift 600 lb, it's not going to go as well, I don't think. Maybe you're stronger than me, but >> No, that's definitely not going to go well. So, as you get stronger, your capacity goes up. >> I've just immediately that's what I've done, and then I've immediately filled it with more companies. Cuz I like it. Because you're addicted. >> Yeah.

To cortisone. Uh I think your dad might be an expert on this. Yeah. What are you supposed to do about that though? Do you just like bore yourself to death for a while and have your nervous system recover? What do you do with any other addiction? You got to stop first.

You got to recognize it first you guys then you got to stop. We'll do a 12 step process. Um but you also just have to realize It's not sustainable. that it's not sustainable and and it will somewhere somehow take away from your long-term goals of being able to do your business, your long-term goals of being able to like you said be 50. Well, you when you're 50 you probably want to hang out with your children and see their children. So you you have some point have to make a change. >> it's it's obvious. Like obviously that's obvious. You can't run yourself ragged.

You can't. >> Because it's actually not it's not a better option for like long-term success anyway cuz you're going to end up crashing. I know that. I know that. I need some of the stress to go away and then I think >> I would ask you is is who do you trust enough to help you to do this cuz you won't do it on your own. That's only the question I ask people it's like is it your husband? Is it I've offloaded like company-wise, I mean things are pretty optimized and I have so much help at home thank goodness. Like I've got nannies that like live here that I love that I don't know I wouldn't be able to have three kids under three without without help.

I just wouldn't have as many children. Like things are pretty optimized. It's mostly it's mostly um like it's mostly family stress. Yeah. Um which is hard to like remove. Yeah. So I think it's I'm just in a trial point.

I'm just kind of laughing because you're like I've offloaded so much in the business in the house and I'm going to have my third kid under three. And I'm like so you're an overachiever mom now cuz you can't help yourself. Which good for you. >> That was an this this baby this was a bit of an oops baby. This was but like then I was like well, I'm combining all the hormonal changes within 3-year period. It's really convenient for like Optimizing motherhood. Optima I love it. Optimizing motherhood at the also you want to talk about depletion.

I mean >> I know. >> What magnesium and B12 you did have is is going to your baby which is is the amazing part about the body, but at the detriment of you. So, when you come out of this, you know, on the back end of of breastfeeding is like, let's make sure we got some good stuff coming in and microdosing in all the things you need as you're going, but uh it's just it's so hard not to do more when you're so good at doing more. You're you're successful. You've got a killer everything. >> It's fun. And it's fun. But the problem is a lot of times with like people like yourself or myself is like we we do things that you just can't get out of. Like you you can't take a day off.

You know, if you get a hobby which like a hobby, what do you mean? Like painting? No. >> I know you're like, what do you do for fun? And I was just like, hmm. >> a new business. Yeah. Mhm. I'm vibe coding an app right now in my downtime.

Which is amazing. Vibe coding is like I don't think I've it's the most fun thing I've seen. I can't believe you can do it. So, instead of I was like in a period during first trimester where I was scrolling and I was like, I just hate my like I hate this. I hate scrolling. Um and I've switched that over to just talking to Claude. I just had Claude build >> toxic way.

I just had Claude build a interactive quiz with all the information I'm talking about today so a person could jump on it and it would just take you down this rabbit hole that would lead you to like the top few things that could potentially be going on. >> That is so cool. So cool. That is so cool. Is that available? Are you going to make it available? >> my phone. It's not available on the internet yet. >> Oh, you need to put that on a website. You could even charge people.

That's that's such a good idea. That's such a good idea. I'm >> like people don't even know where to go and there's so much information out there and I'm having it like sort through not just my opinion but like a lot of other opinions so that it's not completely biased to what I think but it's just like hey how do we get somewhere that's not just what you should everybody should be you know it's just I'm so tired of the controversy causing fun like Instagram posts because it's the only way to grow. Yeah. Like I've I've stalled out on growing as much on Instagram cuz I'm just like I'm not going to go out there and just say everybody should be this one diet or everybody should take this one supplement or everybody has mercury and that's the causation and just be so controversial that everybody in your comments is growing your account by fighting. Like I'm just like I'm not good at that because that's not helping people. It's so boring too.

And and so then I'm just like okay well how else do I educate in a different way because this is going to burn yourself out so I got to educate in a different way and maybe it's it's putting things into like a fun interactive here's where all this information is but it's also quizzing you and like pushing you around in it and and then then you get your like Tik Tok addiction to moving every few minutes cuz it's not super long but you know it's just the the reality. >> good idea. Well you do and you're probably talking to people when they come in for a while to get the health history to go through all their notes if that could be like automated so it could be scaled that could be really useful for people. It it's a part of it and and as you said like the vibe coding part of the back end is just kind of fun I'm just like this is what I want here's my ideas and then it pops it out. >> than talking to a developer. No offense to the developers out there but it's easier. It is it's really fun and what it popped out afterwards I was like man I'd see me like holy crap I like that it just pulled in so so information and put it in a really cool way and I was like, "What the heck is going on?" And I it's the face of everything is changing. >> Yeah. I don't think we're going to be like where the world where there's no employees like some of these people are saying.

I think it's going to be that just you're going to have to be able to produce like a hundred people by yourself. And that's just going to become the new standard and things are just going to continue to move faster. And if you aren't willing to learn how to use some of this stuff, we're just going to have the same thing like, you know, back in the day people had to dig ditches by hand and and when a skid steer came out a Bobcat came out, um if you couldn't one run one then you were kind of out of it unless you were the one guy that was standing next to it. So then a lot of people had to learn how to drive machinery. So we're that we're just learning how to drive the the new machinery of what's going to push industry. I think that's true. It's exciting.

I know that this app that I'm working on um it's a dating app. And I'm going to put it out. I'm going to put it out. It's like a dating app for people who are health focused because most dating apps don't have health as a focus. So it has like the HEXACO personality scale so you can like measure yourself against other people plus your preferences for like diet, whether you exercise. It kind of like gives a compatibility score that you can opt into or opt out of. But I was like, "That's fun."

So that's what's going to what I'm going to publish. We'll see if it's popular or not. But um but I was like, "I'm putting all this effort into Vibe Coding which is really easy compared to building something." Um but I was like, "In six months this is this is happening so quickly. Am I going to spend a month doing this every day? And then in six months I could just describe it and it could be built." But either way it's fun right now.

The the landscape is just changing so quickly. It it's mind-boggling. It's exciting though. It is and I mean it's getting better at at everything. It's getting better at medicine. I mean doctors are using it and getting better at diagnoses. I will say this though.

So when I go out there and do this with it if you just ask for health advice, it's pulling from all of the bought and paid for studies Yeah. that are falsified to push narratives. Yeah. So you have to be really careful about your prompting and where you're getting data from and then you have to read it and go okay, well this study makes sense and it wasn't you know paid for by that pharmaceutical company and and so in the health care area, that's the one thing that it is just so interesting what and why I think there's going to be a place for everything that you're building and I'm building because it's curated by somebody that is willing to do the research and read because if you just ask Claude to go deep dive >> Yeah. I don't cholesterol, it's going to come back with the bought and paid for narrative. >> That's the risk for sure. So you've got to make sure that you understand the information to then be able to help. So I think authenticity of podcast like this and relationship marketing is going to be more and more and more important because I mean a company could put out 60 or 600 ads to target any and everyone now with one guy doing the ads because it all can be made by AI. >> Yeah. Companies are doing that more and more too. >> And they're making up all these fake influencer this is and that. >> you hear and then we and then we should tap out cuz I'm wearing out.

But did you hear there there was like the fastest made billionaire with a single person? Joked one. Yes, did you hear about what he was doing? He made up a bunch of um He made a bunch bunch of fake doctors on meta that endorsed this. I believe it was a peptide site. Is that the one? It was a peptide site and they did like tirzepatide and like semaglutide and stuff like that.

Um and they had a bunch of fake before and afters endorsed by fake doctors and he was valued at like a billion dollars. I think he's likely going to prison because the entire thing was made up and I was like, can you like fake a human on meta to endorse your product? Isn't that fraud? And it looks like it is, but it's hard to say cuz you're not you're not um imitating a real person, which is where the laws are. You're making up a person, which just hasn't existed in the past really. But I was like, things are getting weird. You got to be careful.

Got to be more and more careful. I just wonder, I mean you're you're making up a fake doctor, which is a license, so that's maybe a spot, but let's say it wasn't a doctor and it was just some you know, gym influencer. >> You're not doing anything licensed and you're just saying, "Hey, take this peptide. It worked for me." and showing a testimonial people that were on it while that you were personal training them. So like, take the licensures out of the way. I'm going I mean, legally, what what is it that you're really doing incorrectly, I I guess? Maybe I >> it's a marketing lie cuz it's not a real person endorsing >> marketing lie? I mean, we avoid it.

Yeah, well >> Like with our products cuz it bothers me. I was like, you can't have fake people saying, "Like, this was the best thing. This changed my life." If that wasn't real, then it's a lie. But most marketing is like that. And like we've worked with marketing companies that are like, "Yeah, just like this is a good um this is a good quote." And I was like, "Is it a Is it a real quote?"

No. Okay, then we're not putting it out as a real quote. Like you can't do that. But marketing companies just do that. Yeah. It's tricky. It's tricky out there.

Oh, it's it's we're in a whole new frontier of deep fake AI this. I mean gosh AI brands are exploding across social media with millions of followers that are obviously fake and they're not tied to a single person which means that they'll say anything do anything and and there's no repercussion there's no long-term damage they'll just pop up a new one if they say something too dumb. It's just that's I [clears throat] think I think finding somebody that you can relate to that is authentic that you can trust that's doing the research is going to become more and more and more valuable. I agree. Okay Jaben where can people find you online? Dr. Jaben Moore on basically anything Instagram YouTube my website we're putting out information all the time cuz like I said here I was sick and I just I couldn't find someone to help me and that's partially my goal is just to help people to learn to be educated to understand what's going on out there honestly to help people to some degree have enough information where they can make an informed decision about their health so look up Dr.

Jaben Moore. Cool well thank you very much for coming on that was fun. Thanks for having me.