Mold: The Root Cause Behind Food Sensitivities? | Judy Cho

Intro

I want people to get to a place of I choose to only eat meat, not I can only eat meat. My real thing is if you heal with this, you can help so many people heal that don't realize they're sick. And that's like part of the reason I'm still looking and have been looking is because there's so many people that follow me and I'm like the ideal with the diet is you use this and then you reintroduce foods. And there's so many people can't re- Especially people who gravitate towards a lion diet, those are the people Yeah. that diet that can't reintroduce foods. And it's like, well, something's obviously wrong. You should be able to. Judy Cho, welcome to my podcast.

Thank you for having me. I'm very excited about this episode. I've been wanting to talk to you for a while. I got your book, The Carnivore Cure, when it came out and it's probably the only book that I've read that made sense to me and they didn't have any like carnivore ideology in it. It's like people are only, you know, I mean, I like I I agree that people should be focused on an animal-based diet and that's how people should eat, but it wasn't like people are carnivores and we should be eating this way and it was just focused on healing and health. Right. And so I've been wanting to get you on the podcast for a while because you're one of the only people I follow in the carnivore community that I think is focused on healing and finding root causes and not not in like ideological at all.

So. you. Yeah, so I guess before we get started, can you give a brief background about who you are and what it is you do? Sure. So, I'm Judy Cho, also known as Nutrition with Judy. I am board certified in holistic nutrition. Um my journey with carnivore really started because I got sick. I was a management consultant for 12 years, plant-based for 12 years as well.

And then all of a sudden I was struggling with depression. Um I got on antidepressants and eventually got on antipsychotics for getting really, really sick. Um, and never once did anyone say that my plant-based diet was not ideal for me. So, um, I basically had a breakdown and I my oldest son was 6 months old. Something happened. I took antibiotics. I don't really know what the mechanistic reason was.

I landed in the mental hospital because I was just acting off.

Judy’s Background

And they put they got me on antipsychotics, antidepressants, and again, they never figured out what was wrong. They just said, "I think she's suffering from bulimia and an eating disorder and then maybe postpartum depression." Even though it was 6 months after having a baby. And so, they said, "She should go to an eating disorder facility." So, I listened. I did all the things they recommended because I just wanted a normal life and have my son back. And so, I went my son stayed with my uh, parents in Los Angeles and then I went back to Austin, Texas.

Uh, checked myself into an eating disorder facility. They taught me lots of good mental health supports, um, finding the purpose of like what's what drives me and things like that. But the diet was still very very standard American diet. They would give us microwave pizzas and such and said, "If you feel triggered, you're still disordered." And I found the keto diet. I found the carnivore diet and basically essentially until I found carnivore and I was so desperate because I was so sick, I never fully healed. I once I hit carnivore, I was able to get off all my meds.

I don't have a day of depression. I've been carnivore for over 5 years now. And and then I realized that our diet and our recommendations was so wrong. And I'm such an inquisitive person that I needed to figure out why. And so, when I was on medical disability for my mental illness and breakdown, I just started researching all this stuff about food and nutrition and biochemistry and I got mad and so I I I quit my job. I went back to nutritional therapy school and and then I just started advocating. I learned so much about how to make presentations for CEOs and um making a case and that's what I now do for a carnivore diet and it's not just about this is dogma, this is, you know, we're a bro science or bro diet.

Judy’s Experience With Medications

Did you You um did you have a hard time getting off of the medications you were on? I honestly lost my memory, so I have no idea. Um, it was Yeah, it was really I mean, I I get really emotional still thinking about it. Um, I was breastfeeding and and then I was in the medical or the mental hospital and I was on a mandatory hold, meaning that they thought they determined I was a harm to myself and so I was on a lockdown for 72 hours and so I was forced to stop nursing and the class C drugs of the anti- Yeah, so the class C drugs, um, you're not allowed to nurse. I didn't know any of this. So, but my memory would be and I would hear from my best friend that would come visit me. I'd ask, "Where's Caleb?"

Um, I need to nurse him and they would have to keep going through and telling me you no longer nurse and then I would ask why and then I would start crying and not knowing that I'm going through the same thing for 3 days in a row and then and I was plant-based then, so then my husband didn't know what to do, so started my child on soy milk breast milk or formula and it was just a hard process for all of us and it's um, I I don't know the medication. It didn't really work for me, at least the antidepressant side of it. I was on I listened to that for the next 3 months. I um, I took the full dose and then it wasn't working enough that I went on 300 mg, which is the highest dose back then for that specific SSRI and it wasn't working enough and that's when um, they recommended the antipsychotic to add to it, but it was starting to make me gain weight and stru- suffering from an eating disorder, I was not okay with that. So, it was just this constant back and forth of struggling with mental illness, but I didn't feel any aftereffects of getting off it because I one, I lost my memory when I did the antipsychotics, but then um, it just didn't work for me as well. Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay, well, that's awful.

That is awful. It's no wonder you still get emotional talking about that. I still get emotional talking about like bad things like that because it's so bad. It's hard to describe how bad that is. So, I can understand why you've gone in the direction you've gone in trying to make people better and teach people about the carnivore diet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, crazy.

Um, but what I wanted to I I mean, I have a bunch of questions for you that I think will help people who are new to the diet. Okay. Uh, and then I have a bunch of questions that I'm just curious about because I as you know, I've been on the carnivore diet specifically like lion diet or ruminant meat um, for 5 years and my assumption getting on to the diet was once I became asymptomatic was I'll slowly be able to reintroduce foods, right? Like there's some sort of gut healing that takes place and I will slowly be able to reintroduce foods, but that hasn't happened for me. And I've tried a number of different times and I can't do it. So, I still have crazy inflammatory responses. Now, they're not like like before diet or when I first started, they were so bad that like it would me for like a month.

And now, it's not like that. Like um, so in that way it's gotten better, but there's still something missing. And recently like um, about 2 years ago, I think I I realized I had histamine intolerance and I didn't know what that was before I figured out what that was. And recently I started taking this enzyme um, which has made an insane insane difference. And my mom was the person who actually found it and it's the DAO enzyme. And I was like scared of taking it cuz it's derived from porcine kidney and I can't eat pork. Okay.

So, I was like, no, I'm not taking any supplements, but I started taking this enzyme and it Now, I can eat you know um, kind of aged meat without having any digestive upset or anything. So, that's huge. And so, now I'm thinking I'm I just feel like there's something I'm missing, whether it's like a probiotic I can tolerate or enzymes that I'm missing or something to reduce the inflammatory response. Yeah. And then, I heard you talk about CIRS. So, I kind of brought you on to talk about that. Yeah.

Who Judy Works With & the Limitations of Carnivore

Yeah, so just to give you context of the people I work with. We have a private practice. We focus on root cause healing. We use the Carnivore Cures all meat elimination diet similar to the Lion Diet when you start at baseline. And what we found over the years is that carnivore doesn't fix everything. So, I thought because I suffered from such bad mental illness, eating disorders, and all of that has resolved. So, I thought carnivore was everything.

And I also focus on gut health, where if you fix your mucosal lining, you'll you'll strengthen the barriers, and lots of other things. And you can do the probiotics. And sure, I've met many of my clients patients that cannot tolerate probiotics for various reasons. Over the years, every single one of my client patients have challenged me to think otherwise. So, I used to think liver was the best thing to add if you're nutrient deficient or if you're anorexic. It's not always the case. And so then, I realized that carnivore doesn't fix everyone.

It does a lot of improvement because it's essentially reducing your overall inflammation, especially when it comes to foods that your body is intolerant to. But, I think If I were to explain CIRS, um there is a genetic component to it, where basically 20 to 25% of the population, so it's about 40 million plus people, have a different genetic wiring or code from their parents. Um it's on chromosome 6. Um it's called the HLA. And that number, based on your genetics again, will affect how your immune response is to the outside world, whether it's food, whether it's the environment. And what I'm finding is I think what in the carnivore community, think about how restrictive in a sense carnivore is, right? It's you can only eat meat, and even if you wanted to go to a party and eat something else, you may not be able to tolerate it.

That's the people I work with. I work with the sickest people in the carnivore community. And what I found is when we do the CIRS testing, a lot of these people have this susceptibility, and then it's activated by the immune and I think in the carnivore community, when you have eaten all meat for 6 months to a year and the needle has not moved enough to optimal health healing, if you choose to add other things, you can't add it back. That to me then means that carnivore is becoming a band-aid.

What is CIRS, and What Causes It?

It's optimal diet, but still there's something else, and that's when I think people should start looking at environmental toxins, and one of them is related to CIRS. Okay, okay. Um but does CIRS So So what is what is CIRS and and what can trigger it? Yeah, so CIRS is a chronic inflammatory response syndrome. And so of that 20% of the population, what happens is we have two basic We have two sides to our immune system. One is the innate immune side, and the one is the adaptive. And just to make it super simple, the innate is just the initial immune response.

It's like the more basic immune function, the macrophages, just really simple things. And when the foreigner, the invader, is just less than I It's a lot more complicated, the innate side will then release antigens or communications to the adaptive side of saying, "Hey, T cells, B cells, memory cells, I need you to come in and remove this toxin cuz we can't handle it." So the way that it does that is releasing cytokines. It releases all these immune things to communicate, and then normally the adaptive side will come in and remove it. That 25 20 to 25% of the population cannot do the trade-off. So, what ends up happening is the innate side gets super inflamed and is saying, "Hey, hey, there's this foreigner or invader in our system and I need it to be removed." And this side has no idea and will never know.

And so, what happens is we get exposed to these biotoxins. It could be water damaged buildings. It could be a recluse spider bite. It could be Lyme. Um lots of things that are natural toxins um in our environment and it gets into our system and the 20% of the population does not recognize to remove it, even though the innate side sees it. And so, what ends up happening is over time, it is not the actual mold itself or the Lyme itself, it's the inflammatory response has gone awry. And that's the illness.

That is the illness. And so, what we're trying to do over time with CIRS is essentially we're trying to quell that immune response. We're actually we you can take some binders and it it the binder is very specific, but if you take a certain binder, it will actually pull those toxins that are in your system that your other side of your immune system was was not able to remove and then you can find start to find healing. Okay, okay. That's cool. So, this isn't just caused by mold. This could be caused it could be caused by a virus, too, or a bacterial infection initially or any type of toxin?

It's mostly from water damaged buildings and water damaged buildings can have um endotoxins, biotoxins, actinomyces. It's just a variety of living things that they could be dead, too, but um essentially you will it'll trigger the that immune response. So, I have seen people with long COVID. I think they're honestly suffering from CIRS. It's just their immune system is not able to now turn off that level of inflammation because again the other side is not able to recognize it and shut it off. Okay. So my uh cuz I've gone I've done like a deep dive into mold.

I did that a a while ago and I know I had mold exposure when I was about eight but my symptoms started when I was two. I don't know what happened then. So I've always thought it was viral which is a you know, but I mean But I mean if something provokes the immune system and then the immune system overreacts to everything it wouldn't really matter what the cause was, right? Yeah, the the thing so there are a lot of children that show or present CIRS these symptoms and it's very very lightning. So if your parents and maybe you if you have the genetic thing you obviously one of your parents has it if not both. If they give you like double whammy of the genes, your chance of being affected is higher. So there are kids um that that have the HLA and then they will present even at a young age.

One of the biggest symptoms is when your child is born if they're having GERD issues. So like they drink a lot of breast milk or formula and they're always throwing up. They can't tolerate anything. And then when they're in like elementary school these symptoms are they get headaches frequently or stomach aches or they're tired more than the average child. These are the small symptoms and then it's just over time if the bucket your toxin bucket load gets filled and now it starts to overflowing that's when the symptomology becomes really present and you will start feeling what they call it a multi-system multi-symptom. So it affects many of your systems in your body and then it has multiple symptoms. So where I think CIRS gets really confusing for people is um there's a whole process process and cascade that occurs and it starts affecting your adrenal function, your androgens, or your hormones, your sleep, your pain.

And so people start getting misdiagnosed for so many different things. And people say, "Oh, it's fibromyalgia. Oh, you have chronic fatigue syndrome." And the question should always be why? Why did that happen? What is going on? And I I just saw a a number, a statistic where if you get a second diagnosis, 80% is usually different.

And the study was done by Mayo Clinic. So how do you know that the diagnosis you got is correct? Yeah. Okay. That's very interesting. So then, what do you do?

How Do You Test for CIRS?

Like how do you how do you test for it? And is this test just in kind of the integrative medicine area, or is this also more mainstream? So the in 2008, I believe, the US GAO accepted that CIRS is an illness, that mold in your homes, from water damaged buildings, can make you sick. So it is accepted. I believe that when the community at large, or the medical industry at large, accepts mold as a true illness, then the hospitals this is the only peer-reviewed, evidence-based protocol that has over 25 papers written on it. I think it will be the one that's adopted. I know that there are so many mold protocols online, and it's not getting to the root cause.

The root cause is the chronic inflammation. It is that lots of things have happened, the cytokines releasing and affecting leptin, and then leptin receptors are releasing lots of leptin, and causing some people to be overweight, but it's because they're trying to release a hormone called melanocyte-stimulating hormone. And what ends up happening is it gets blocked from being produced, and that it's that MSH that then affects all the different downstream symptoms. When we get sick from this illness, we produce a lot of cortisol and that affects our brain. Initially, our brain will become I guess it has a lot more excess cortisol in the hippocampus, then it affects our hypothalamus and then it affects our pituitary. And at first, the again that innate immune system is trying to tell the adaptive side, "There's a fire, we need to resolve this." And cortisol is obviously that stress response.

Nothing happens and over time the brain says, "We need to shut down." We have so much saturation of cortisol in the hippocampus and when that shut down happens, then the re- um the other parts of the brain start also saying, "We need to shut down to protect this body from dying." And when that shut down happens, that's when that master hormone, the melanocyte-stimulating hormones uh reduces and it's when that reduction happens that every downstream symptomatology starts to occur. That's when our hormones get messed up. Um again, the uh chronic pain, lack of sleep, uh the electrolyte stuff. It's really fascinating, but a lot of the reasons why people say carnivore doesn't work is actually it's very, very related to possibly CIRS. Um I think when people say, "I can't balance my electrolytes on carnivore."

Yes, when we don't eat or consume a lot of glucose, we have less water retention. So, what if we are naturally imbalanced in our electrolytes no matter how much sodium or electrolytes we consume, we're not balancing. What if that's always an issue? Carbs will mask it, but it's not resolving it. And one hormone to give you an example, on CIRS, when you have the low MSH, it affects your antidiuretic hormone and that ADH is what helps you to hold on to water. And so, there's a lot of carnivores, they're constantly thirsty, constantly drinking, but the ADH hormone is low, so they just keep peeing it out. So, they never feel hydrated.

So, what if that's the issue and not an electrolyte imbalance so that they need to add carbs. There's so many examples of this and I do Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I know I I totally get that. When uh whenever so my both my parents are like they're good now. Okay. They're good now, but they're so sick if they're not on this diet that they would be dead.

Like it's crazy. My mom has lupus and my dad has like severe depression if he's not on the diet and amongst other things of like psoriasis, he had GERD.

Jordan Peterson’s Food Reactions

So like there's there's a bunch of things um going on and my dad um his reactions are like more severe uh or acute. They're more acute, I would say, when he accidentally eats something. So if he goes to a restaurant, he gets hit with something and he knows that he's having a reaction because he gets extremely anxious, but he gets so thirsty, he'll drink like 7 L of water. Like he's just like waking up at night drinking water and we thought, "Well, maybe it's your body trying to like flush out whatever is having like giving you an allergic reaction, but it would be nice to get like less reactive for them, too. Um particularly particularly my dad. So the the you can do genetic testing to look for it and then you can do these blood measurements looking at MSH Yes. and then what So What was the other one? really really quickly with your dad, I think um one big component of CIRS is mental illness. It's a huge component.

So a lot of the markers, they become um it it affects your blood brain barrier, causes it to be permeable. So a lot of people I'll I'll just give you a few examples of my client patients. A lot of people have been diagnosed with bipolar. They will go to their doctors and then they'll do all the blood work on the adaptive side, which is not the side that this is affecting and the doctor says, "Your CRP looks good. Your insulin is good." Right? Cuz they're on a carnivore diet, everything's good.

I think it's in your head. And so they recommend them to a psychiatrist and they get them on meds because they are believing or feeling these fake symptoms. And as we test for CIRS, we realize actually there are toxins that are getting into your brain because it's breached from the blood-brain barrier because of the certain markers that are inflamed. With all that said, the way to the best way to test is there's a vision test. Um I would say that's the most economical way to start. So, if you fail this vision test, and it's an it's a contrast sensitivity test, the Air Force is the one that created this test and what they do and they still use it now is they want you to take a simple test to see can you see contrast? And it's really faint.

It's like these gray squiggly lines. And if your brain function isn't optimal, you will not see those lines. And it's $15. You could do it online if you have a decent computer or modern electronic. So, I I'll give you all the information afterward, but you could take that test. If you fail it, there's a 90% chance you are suffering from CIRS. And then afterward, um the other thing to look at is there's a cluster of symptoms that most uh CIRS people are suffering with.

Now, carnivore will mask some of them. So, a lot of people will say, "Oh, I don't suffer from a lot of those symptoms anymore. I maybe I only have half." But it's the question is is it because carnivore is doing so well with that? So, that's the other thing to look at. If you fall into eight of the 13 clusters, which are symptomatologies, you just have to look at the chart. And then you fail the VCS test, the chance of you having CIRS is 98%.

Hm. Okay. And then you do blood work. So, you can go all the providers. We also do it, too, but we usually use LabCorp Quest, and the genetic is test is also through the LabCorp. And we just test the inflammatory or the innate side of the inflammatory system and not the adaptive side. So, so many of my clients, again, their immune system looks wonderful.

All the markers look great. But then when we test the innate side, there's so much inflammation. And so, that's why even if there's questions with this whole protocol, there's baseline numbers you can look at. There are numbers that are out of range. And that's why I fell in love with this because it's not we're guessing or you do a urine test and they're showing that there's a release of mold. We don't know if that's a good thing because you're releasing something that you ate or or that you're always suffering from it. We just don't know.

Whereas this one there are numbers, hard numbers that we go by that you do with blood work and then as you heal you see the numbers go down. So your inflammatory response is reducing and whole process is reducing each each inflammation marker so that things start settling down. You start telling your immune system, "Hey, everything's okay. You don't need to be on fight mode and you could be back in surveillance mode." And once you get there, you take the VIP which that is a polypeptide that basically helps your hormone system or that MSH to be supporting your body again. So that things normalize, you can take if you want to eat other foods, you should be able to. That's the goal.

The goal is root cause and being able to tolerate a lot of other foods for you and your parents.

Environmental Allergies

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It's just strange because for us, like my parents are feeling great. Like, I'm feeling really good. But I can't like change anything. Like, things are really good. So, if you're like, "Well, what are your symptoms?" What are my symptoms? Um I don't know.

The Problems With Carnivore

Like, I'm super alert I think my environmental allergies, they're quite bad. Like, they're quite bad. They were always really bad, though, but they haven't gotten better. Um And then, I don't know. Other than that, I'm just like perma-sensitive. So, I in terms of the environmental allergies, immune system, this is how I think of it. If your body's um immune system and it it's not being affected by other things.

So, let's say foods, right? So, plant toxins, uh plant sensitivities, then your body should get stronger so that now it has the ability and room to deal with the environmental stuff. So, if you have seasonal allergies I used to have seasonal allergies when I used to be plant-based. I have zero seasonal allergies. And Yeah, and I do I do badly. And I've removed like it's crazy. Everything's out of my diet like everything.

I never cheat. Like toxins in my environment there aren't any because as soon as there's one I can tell. Like so So, then why like my assumption was once I did that I would heal and then become less sensitive and it just hasn't happened. It's so strange. And that's the that is what's supposed to happen. Ideally your body gets stronger. The mucosal lining of everything gets stronger in your body.

Your your cells are nutrient dense because of the foods you're eating, right? So, they're all getting the proper nutrition to break down into raw materials to support the whole system. When you're dealing with something other than food, that's why it's not happening. And that's where I think carnivore becomes a band-aid. And I I mean I am a carnivore nutritionist. I believe in carnivore. It's healed me so much.

It's why I don't think the fruit and honey stuff is ideal. But I have to be honest for my patients and clients of there is a point where carnivore only works to a certain point and then you have to look further.

Can You Find True Healing?

I don't think it means that you have to remove carnivore as a healing mechanism. You may be able to become like ketovore or a carnivore plus some plants over time. That's the goal. And if but I want people to get to a place of I choose to only eat meat not I can only eat meat. It's a huge difference in healing. And I I think there's so many carnivores where I mean I'll I'll call it. There's so many influencers in the carnivore space that's a you're not healing it's because you haven't removed the the seasonings or the sweeteners or the coffee.

You're not carnivoring harder. You should be adding organs. And it's not that simple or that people should be removing salt. The ADH osmolality affects your salt. So, what if removing salt or adding salt is just a band-aid for that ADH marker? It's so simple, you just go and test it. Right, there's so even the low testosterone.

Um two ways that CIRS affects testosterone, right? We hear that so much in the carnivore community of oh, uh this diet's going to ruin your testosterone. And one, if you eat sufficient fat, that should benefit it. But um one thing is so testosterone um once it comes into the body, CIRS um increases your aromatase enzyme. And for men especially, when you are even taking exogenous hormones or the testosterone, it will convert a lot of the testosterone to estrogen because of that aromatase. So, how do we know that some of the men are not suffering from CIRS, which is then converting their testosterone to estrogen, and it's not that they're just low on T because of the diet? There's just so many examples of that because of CIRS.

Wow. Okay. Well, that sounds good. I mean, what I like about that too is there's tests you can do to see. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, amazing.

Great. Well, I should be good. I um and we could talk offline about the testing stuff, but I I have seen so much healing in some of my sickest clients and patients where I thought maybe this is the best they can be, where they graduated from a grade F of health to a C. Yeah, yeah. And now they're actually close to an A. I have one client I just shared her story. She was never able to consume dairy.

She had histamine reactions for anything she ate. She only ate grass-fed. She did a Lyme diet. She improved a lot, but then her symptoms would eventually kind of come back depending on the environment. And when she started working with me, we did gut supports. Again, it helped a little bit, but not enough. Until we found CIRS, and she's been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, um Hashimoto's, and she has CIRS.

She's done the whole protocol. She's not fully done yet. She's been doing it for 9 months fixing the environment, so the home is safe and not water damaged. She can tolerate any plant she wants.

What Is Low Folate?

She could do dairy. Um she she doesn't have any histamine issues. She used to take uh sinus medication every night to sleep because of her nasal, and that is also affected by CIRS. She does none of that. And she's not even done with the whole protocol. She's not on that VIP spray yet, but she's taking the binders to remove most of the biotoxins that have come in her body and caused inflammation everywhere in her system. Wow.

Wouldn't you assume though, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm sure not everyone's interested as interested as I am in this, but wouldn't you assume that if you remove the toxin from your environment after, cuz I've moved to like, I don't know, I've lived in 30 different houses. Wow. And I like I can usually smell, you can like, I know that either it's going to be water damage that you can't smell, but I'm pretty paranoid about mold. So, I had mold exposure when I was young, but I'm pretty I've been pretty careful about my environment. But wouldn't your body, after, I don't know, 5 years, wouldn't those toxins just go away naturally?

Beef Liver vs. Chicken Liver

So, if you don't if you are part of that 20% of the genetic uh susceptibility, it won't go away. So, it doesn't know how to remove it because the adaptive side. And most of the mold that we get sick from is not the water damage. The one that the active mildewy smell, it's when spores or mold dries up and then it breaks into fragments, and I think one spore breaks into thousands of fragments, and it's those really small bits that can breach the blood-brain barrier, and those are the ones that actually make us sicker. Okay, that's gross. Yeah. Okay.

Okay, okay, moving on from CIRS. We'll talk offline. And I think what I'll do, just so people are aware, is I'll do all the tests and everything, and then do an update to see if that was I have no like I have no hope anymore. I have this diet, the diet's great, it's keeping me in a good place, but like I'd be able I'd like to be able to eat lettuce again. But um I'm excited for you. Maybe, who knows? Um, okay.

So, for for other people, a couple of things. What happens if you've been doing carnivore for for a while, uh, and you end up with a low vitamin, say folate. I know a lot of people who've had low folate. And my folate showed up as low. I didn't have any symptoms of low folate, but it was low. So, what do people do? And then, should they be concerned?

I feel like low folate isn't ideal. Right. So, you need folate if you're going to make a baby. And obviously, folate is just good.

Histamines and Raw Milk

Um, it's obviously one of the essential vitamins. But, it may be a new normal. So, maybe if the thing is most carnivores don't test folate because it's not one of the general tests that are done. And so, people will go out of their way to test their folate. Um, and so, the subset of people that are testing are small. But, it could be a normal, um, a new normal, just like our vitamin C. Yeah, yeah. normal or our LDL, for example.

So, that's one. But, if you do want to supplement, um, I think I was looking at a lot of the nutrition. It's I find it so interesting. So, I know that a lot of the beef liver community, the especially the desiccated organ supplements, um, the the other products out there, they tout that that is the best food to consume for folate, and it's just not true. So, I you know, because I create a lot of the graphics and I'm always on, um, USDA looking at the content. And um, chicken liver is actually higher in folate than beef liver. So, one 1 oz of beef liver has about 20% of your daily value.

So, in terms of supplements, that's six. So, in order to get 100% of your daily value, you would need to take about 30 to 31 supplements of the those organ supplements. Which then, there's the risk of hypervitaminosis A and copper toxicity. Whereas, chicken liver, I think 1 oz has 45% of your daily value. So Oh, wow. if you really want to supplement and again we don't know what the new norm is. If there's no symptoms the question always is does that then matter? But you can consume chicken liver 1 oz again has 40%.

It's also there is some folate and lamb and then there's also folate and egg yolks. So that would be my suggestion. Some other people again if there's a root cause if it's that you're not methylating properly if it's that your homocysteine is high and might just be that you need a little support with the methylated B and I interviewed someone not too long ago and they said that their patients consume the folate from supplements from these organ supplements and they don't see the needle move enough until they actually take a methylated B. Huh. Yeah. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah.

Okay, okay. Um Okay, histamine histamine intolerance on carnivore. How often do you see that and do you know why that happens? Yeah, so um histamines are often thought of being released by MCAS and MCAS is basically a immune system response to protect your body. When it comes to CIRS it's not that. It's a histamine response is part of that innate immune side. And so there are I think like 200 chemical mediators that your immune system releases to notify the body that there's something inside your body that's not supposed to be there.

One of the responses is a histamine response. So if you're suffering from CIRS that histamine response is actually a gene activation. It's not related to MCAS. Now when you consume meats and foods that have less histamines you'll feel less of a symptom but it's not because um of the food itself that's making you have a histamine response. I hear it all the time carnivore made my histamines get worse. It's not though. It's actually that maybe your gene activation is now more present and you're noticing it more compared to when you were eating all these plant-based foods that were inundating your body with so much inflammation that you didn't know what was up from down.

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Very interesting. What about um Let me see. Okay, what about people who introduce raw milk? How do you feel about raw milk?

Yeah, so my boys are on They've been drinking raw milk forever. Um I'm a fan of it. It really depends on you. So, if for example, any amount of sugars will affect your blood sugar, your insulin levels, um if you're metabolically unwell, maybe it's not ideal for you. If a little bit of sugar then triggers you to want to binge, probably not ideal for you. Um I know that it's good for gut health, but then if you're really, really permeable with gut health, it may not still be good just because of the lactose. So, it really depends.

I would say for your individual body, just maybe try an ounce a day, see how you feel with your normal baseline of health. If you start feeling reactions, it might not be good, but you want to do that for about 3 to 5 days. The only thing you're introducing is little bits of raw milk, and that's how you to ideally know if raw milk is benefiting you or not. Seems like a good idea. Yeah. And then and then what about probiotics? How do you feel about probiotics?

So, I'm a fan of probiotics. I think that so much of our world and the antibiotic use and the die-off of some of the chemicals and pesticides we use in a lot of our plant-based foods are riddled with the pesticide glyphosate, etc. And so, it's beneficial, but from my sickest clients, they cannot tolerate probiotics at first. Even if I tell them to open the capsule and take a little bit, it affects them. And I think it's because their immune system is so heightened that any bit, whether it's good or bad, is going to affect them. So, once you get to a place that you can tolerate them, I highly recommend a high-quality one. If you're eating carnivore and long-term you're doing good, maybe you do once a year for maintenance, but I think if you're coming from a standard American diet, you've been on antibiotics, you've been you were born C-section, you didn't get breastfed, for those people, it may be beneficial just to do a dose.

But once you're on carnivore for long-term, I think maybe once a year, once every 2 years. But if you're not able to tolerate it, there's another root cause. Mhm. Yeah. I like this. This is then this is what I've been thinking, too. It's like, obviously there's something going on.

It's just what is it? And what if it's a viral infection that's like in my cells? And it's just there. That would be worst-case scenario. Have you ever had Have you ever had COVID? Oh my gosh, yeah. I've had COVID four times.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So, I I I Every time a new strand comes out, you get it. Yeah. Okay. So, I I don't know if it's a viral infection. Now, the testing will determine it.

One thing that a lot of the CIRS providers says is, don't try to say that a certain symptom is therefore equals this. So, for example, a lot of the people in the Lyme community will say, if you have Babesia, your symptoms are more this versus if it's just Lyme. And it's Yeah. Your immune system works together. So, every person will manifest the symptoms differently. So, it's really hard to say this equals that. And it's more You could just get tested.

That's the easiest way to know is your inflammatory response system on the innate side heightened? And then what can we do to just reduce every single inflammatory marker? And that's the goal. That's cool. And are are the binders you take for this to remove toxins, are those prescription or these supplements? Yeah, they're prescription. So, it's actually used for cholesterol reduction.

So, that's where I think carnivore is perfect. If you've been eating high-fat, your cholesterol's probably high anyway. And so, just for a short period of time, you take these cholesterol reducers. It's not statins, it's a binder. And when you take it it will remove because it's the same charge and the same size of these biotoxins in your system.

Judy’s Take on Fruit and Honey

It's why some of the other like activated charcoal and all these other supplement types of binders don't work as well. They're the wrong charge, wrong size and it doesn't fit perfectly. That's why this medicated version is ideal and if you don't tolerate as well in the beginning it could be your either your immune system is really high but there's ways to work around that. But it's a that cholesterol reducing medication which we use for sirs to actually pull the binder and remove some of the the yucky stuff that's in the bile. Cool. Yeah. Okay.

Cool. I tried chlorella like early on this was like five five years ago. Yeah, like everything bentonite clay activated charcoal chlorella. Yes. There was just like nothing. I mean activated charcoal like at least it didn't do anything bad and I don't think bentonite clay did anything bad. Chlorella didn't make me feel good.

Um but just like nothing nothing was useful until this diet at all. Yes. And I've never taken a supplement that's helped at all except for this new enzyme that the DAO which is just like magical. I cannot believe how well that works for histamine intolerance. And then to break down histamines and that's that's why. Because if you have good gut function it'll produce more DAO in this the gut. No, I know I was trying to explain that to my mom too cuz she's like maybe we have a genetic problem but I ran our like we did 23 and me in like 2013 I got my entire family to do it and it doesn't look like we have a genetic susceptibility to histamine intolerance.

I was like I think it's just a gut thing. I think it's a gene thing for you. I don't know. We'll see. We'll have to see. I think this is what I think of toxins. So we all have a toxin bucket.

This is the example I always give my clients. What as you're growing up everything it'll keep loading and loading and eventually the bucket will overflow and once it overflows that's when you feel the symptomalogy. So, as when you're young, you may not feel as much. You might have the small like little headaches, the tired-ness because of the genetic susceptibility, but over time, if this bucket is fully full, you will start feeling sick. I think why some of those other binders, the supplements, the more natural forms are beneficial is it will reduce a little bit of this. And so, some people maybe reducing the heavy heavy metal load or some other toxin that's in their system, and they'll say, "Oh my gosh, I feel a little better." But if 3 months later you're starting to feel sick again, it's not the answer.

And that's really what I want to press is even with carnivore, it absolutely reduces inflammation. It's one of the papers I'm trying to write of how MMP-9 and carnivore itself uh it helps to reduce inflammation and why people fare better on CIRS with carnivore because it reduces the overall inflammation load, but not enough. And so, I think with carnivore, it reduces a lot of this, but the question should always be what is making my load full anyway, right? Of what is making it that I can't even tolerate a little bit of vegetables or a little bit of something that most other people can. And that's what uh what I always mean by getting to the cause. Yeah. Cool.

Yeah. Okay, how do you feel about how do you feel about honey and fruit? The doctors they're like I eat fruit, but I'm also a carnivore. So, I always wonder the question is always why. So, if you can tolerate it, you're metabolically flexible, um you are an athlete, and you feel better on it, and all your symptoms are as good as baseline, then maybe it's not an issue if you are um metabolically flexible again. One thing that concerns me with fruit and honey is a lot of people that come to this way of eating, they have they struggle with obesity or they have insulin resistance. For those people, something like um a a fruit can become a pie, right?

So, apples become apple pie, and so they start binging. I have clients they do intake forms, and they tell me, "I tried the fruit and honey cuz I wasn't feeling well, and now, 6 months out, I'm struggling and I'm on the standard American diet. So, I'm trying to work with you to get back on." That's the concern of it. And then, the other thing is with when it comes to CIRS, there is one inflammatory marker that gets exacerbated when you eat more sugar. So, um sugar can be inflammatory, and there's a marker called MMP-9. When and um when you eat a higher carb diet, that marker will go up.

And what we're seeing, and this is a paper we're trying to write, is that MMP-9 is actually lower on all-meat carnivore. So, again, it may be the band-aid to hold enough water so you don't feel the electrolyte issues, but is it really resolving the root cause issue? So, that's that. And then, honey is We're all afraid of high-fructose corn syrup. We know it's bad. I know that honey has some types of benefits. Um I did the research when I was writing my first book.

Honey, a lot of times, is not being um regulated. And so, sometimes, they might add more color to make it look more ambery. Um it's just not regulated. You don't know if you're getting a little bit of high-fructose corn syrup. And honey itself is very high in fructose. And it And there are some people, researchers, that say fructose is what is really making us sick and fat and unwell.

What’s the Deal With Iodine?

And if we know that high-fructose corn syrup is not ideal, then why are we consuming honey that has actually a little bit more fructose proportionally than high-fructose corn syrup? That's fair. I seem to I I seem to be be able to eat honey a little bit. Okay. Like that's the only thing I can do without having an inflammatory reaction. Which is strange. I would have thought the like pollen in it would have bothered me. you?

Yeah, but I Yeah. It'll be interesting to test your MMP-9 because that gets affected if um there's a little bit more sugar. It's not always like that, but it'll be interesting to see that. And that's just another blood test you can take and just take it. part of the CIRS blood work. So, CIRS blood work is like this one package. Yeah, it's cool. Okay, great.

I'm definitely going to do that and I will update everybody to see what see what happens. That's fun. Okay, what else? I had I had the community ask some questions, too. I answered like one of them, like the low folate question. Um What about What time is it? Okay, a few more.

Um Okay, and then I So, how do you feel about like calcium levels and iodine? Are those important to supplement or do you not need to supplement those? I know people talked about iodine. I never I never supplemented iodine. I don't even know what the body needs iodine for, to be honest, but people talk about it. Yeah, yeah. So, I I do recommend supplementing iodine and Oh, okay.

So, and the reason is So, a lot of people think that taking iodized salt, which is just table salt, has iodine, so that's sufficient. The reason the government put that in is because people were having goiters that um because they were um insufficient in iodine. And so, that's why they created iodized salt. There's so many studies that show that the iodized salt does not have enough iodine because some of it gets evaporated in the air as they're processing it. There's also a lot of junk in iodized salt, so it's not ideal for that reasons, too. Um there's a lot of other countries that are suffering from goiters and other illnesses based off low iodine, so it's just something to consider. Every cell uses iodine.

Um our the main part of our body that really uses iodine, also, is thyroid, so you need proteins, as well as thy um iodine, to then produce thyroid. So, in my practice, if someone is having issues with thyroid markers, I will always recommend them to um take a little bit of iodine and you just use the iodine drops. And for some people that also suffer from I don't know I wouldn't say a genetic component of breast cancer, but I had somebody on my channel where they talked about uh they've done so much research where the increase in breast cancer is actually because of a deficiency in iodine. I haven't looked into it as much, but there's no harm in doing uh supplementing with iodine. There's old research that says if you use iodine, especially if you're hypothyroid, it'll exacerbate that. That was with radioactive iodine. It is not the same as what we're supplementing with.

Be Careful With Vitamin D

There's a test you could take. You take 50 mg of iodine, which is a lot, and you pee it out. And so, that's the way the body works with excess iodine. You just remove it. If you're struggling with bromide and fluoride, they're all part of the same table of elements. If you take the iodine, it'll flush out some of that as well. So, I think it's ideal if someone can people can even take a little bit.

And uh one of the um benefits I hear from my clients is you'll feel like more tenderness and breast um fullness in your breast when you take iodine. And then for some people in the morning, they'll feel more energy, especially if you're hypothyroid. Huh. That's cool. And there's no downsides? Um no. I know I know again, there's research where people will say, "No, no, there's thyroid doctors that say it's so bad for you."

But again, if you look at the literature, it's because it was radioactive iodine. It's not the same. Okay, cool. Okay. What about What about calcium? So, calcium is Normally, people are not deficient because of calcium itself. It's all the cofactors.

So, in order for calcium to go to the right places, it really depends depends on a lot of the cofactors. If you're eating sufficient meat, um your stress levels are reduced.

Stem Cell Infusions for Autoimmunity

When you're stressed, you will bleed out more calcium. So, it's not a I'm not eating sufficient calcium. I know people get worried, "Well, I don't eat fish. I don't eat fish with bones. And then I don't eat dairy, so where am I getting my calcium?" Normally, it's not the calcium itself. If you need calcium, you can always supplement, but typically speaking, um it's usually like the cofactor vitamin D, your magnesium, or high stress in the life of um too much cortisol, for example.

So, I would look into a little bit of the cofactors of calcium, make sure that that is all sufficient, and then you can and then if it's still in balance, that's when you can then consider calcium. There's a lot of studies that show I think it's like mid-age women, they supplement calcium, and then they have higher risk of heart disease. So, I normally don't recommend calcium right away. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah. That's good to know. Okay, vitamin D.

Um is low vitamin D another sign of CIRS? Yes. Um so, it's not in the literature, so I have to always preface that. Um I have seen So, I get very iffy about vitamin D because a lot of the vitamin D, I think they use certain ingredients that are similar to rat poison. I know vitamin D has been super highly advocated for during COVID. So, I am a little bit more cautious about it, and I've been a little bit less vocal about it. There might be incorrect numbers that we are chasing for vitamin D levels, that's why.

And I I could share a study with you, I'll give it to you afterward, but it says that actually the optimal level is like 25, and that people were reading the paper wrong. I haven't looked into it enough to say yay or nay. What I have seen is a lot of my clients, again, they're the sickest of the carnivore community, their vitamin D is low.

How to Reintroduce Foods

So, a lot of them will do the D3 K2 5,000 10,000 IUs, it barely moves the needle, barely moves it. When they go through the CIRS protocol, they take the VIP, there has been a strong association with when the VIP regulates, the MSH goes up, and all the symptoms start reducing, their vitamin D goes up naturally. Hmm. Cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, this sounds this sounds interesting.

Have you done any research looking into stem cell infusions for autoimmunity or NK cell infusions? Um not You look Not a ton. Um I know that it's an option. So, when people are unwell, the stem cells can maybe regenerate things or make things better in the system. I just I'm all for all of these things. I know that some people uh use adjunct therapies with carnivore, and I'm supportive of all of them. Even if you use CBD at night, melatonin, I mean, melatonin's kind of a hormone, so it's I'm just a little iffy with that.

That's also affected by CIRS. I always say, get to root cause. So, why do you need the stem cells, right? If you think about a couple hundred years ago, no one needed that. If you want to use it to have longevity and um live longer and healthier, maybe. But, if you're doing it because you're not unwell, then figure out what's making you unwell first. And then if you want to use it, totally supportive.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, great. Okay, let me see. What else do I have here? Okay. So, say you've done carnivore for a while.

Say you've done a meat-only diet, like the lion diet, for a while, and you're trying to reintroduce foods. How do you suggest people reintroduce foods? I always say, look at your symptomology. So, if you came to this way of eating and you had diabetes, maybe fruit is the last one you want to reintroduce. If you um struggled with gut issues, maybe foods with lectins are the last one you want to reduce um reintroduce. So, it really depends on your current situation of why you went to carnivore, and then maybe not picking the certain foods that have certain antinutrients. So, that's the first thing.

But, once you decide, okay, I'm going to add leafy greens or add some berries, always start, like I mentioned about the um the raw milk, start with your baseline, and I always measure a few um markers for health. It's your sleep, your mood, your energies, your stool, and your hormones. And so, have that baseline of health. If you want to do blood work, you can, but otherwise, just go by symptomologies. And then, use a food and mood journal. Write down everything that you're noticing. And if you, let's say, want to introduce berries, maybe start with half a cup at lunch, and just do one serving, and that's it.

That's the only difference of um what you're currently eating. And then, write down how you feel. How do you feel after an hour? How's your mood? How's your stool? How's your sleep? And then the next day maybe you do half a cup at lunch and then half a cup at dinner.

And then do the same thing. And I know it's so cumbersome, but that's the best way to know more than any I G G test many any food sensitivity test.

The Problem With Supplementation

If you haven't consumed gluten in forever, your I G G test is not going to pick that up, right? So the best way is listening and honoring your body's reactions. And so after three to five days of using the same food and then increasing its dosage if you are feeling fine, then that food is probably safe for you. And then you keep doing that with every food you want to to reintroduce. And if you have a bad reaction, you want to go back to baseline by eating just the baseline foods you ate, wait for that symptomology to go down back to your baseline, and then start with a different food. And you know that current food was not the food to reintroduce first. Yeah.

It's so hard for me to understand how this isn't just widely known in the medical industry. It's like duh, you can you can eat one thing, you can get your inflammation levels down. Yeah, track your food, introduce one by one and see what happens. There you go. That's such a It's like an elevator pitch. It's not a complicated idea. I don't know why like everybody should try that.

I I think part of the reason is we live in a society of I want results now, right? Give me a pill, give me something instead of doing a carnivore diet which sounds so crazy. But if you have this crazy healing, you know how powerful it is. And I think to say, "Oh my gosh, so if I want to introduce I don't know if there's 365 days, it would take you like a hundred It would take a full year to introduce just a hundred foods." And so for some people, that's just too much. Just give me an I G G test or a food allergy test and just tell me what I'm allergic to and I just won't eat those. It's easier.

But it's not the right answer because your body's mechanisms and symptoms are the strongest way to know if something is working or it's not. Yeah. Also, like regarding those IgG tests, they were pretty accurate for me when I was eating.

How to Start the Carnivore Diet

You know, when everything was in my diet, the things that showed up in like red and orange, they made me very ill when I tried to reintroduce them. But, there were some things I was very sensitive to that didn't show up. So, okay. Not not not everything like you know, gives you an IgG response. So, so those tests don't work the same way as reintroducing foods. Reintroducing foods is like a sure way to do it. Yeah, your body decent. never has symptoms and if it does have symptoms, it's telling you that something's off.

So, when people supplement hormones or something and they say I'm I'm low I I took a Dutch test and I found that I'm low in estrogen, so I should start supplementing estrogen or when they start supplement with progesterone, you have to find out why you're low because your body will do the best it can with what it has and when it's not you when you don't have enough or things aren't working well enough, it will show it in symptomatologies. And when we just say it's that whole um medical standard of oh, if you're low in progesterone, just supplement with progesterone and that works a little bit, but then some of it if there was an imbalance already, it's going to go to that imbalance, too.

How to Work With Judy

So, sometimes progesterone gets shuttled to make cortisol and cortisol's a catabolic hormone, meaning it breaks down tissue and stuff. So, if you're supplementing progesterone, some of it will go to progesterone, but some of it's going to go and produce more cortisol. So, the goal is to actually figure out why you're low in progesterone. And I think that's where doing a food and mood journal and eating the foods and seeing your own bodily reaction, your body's saying no, I don't like that or yes, I do. And if you can't um if you can't consume anything beyond meat, then it becomes a bad date, especially if you've been doing it long term because your body should have been healing so much to then reintroduce other things and if you can't, dig deeper. Mhm. Mhm.

Definitely. Um how how do you suggest people start the carnivore diet if they're on a standard American diet? Do you ever say people just, you know, jump right in? You're going to suffer a little bit, but jump in, or do you have a weaning process? I think it depends on the person again. I know, sorry, I don't give like these straight answers, but because I think it really is individualized. Yeah.

If you are an abstainer versus moderator, so that really means if you're all or nothing, if you notice that you have addictions or habitudes where either you can eat one cookie and then you don't eat anymore, that's probably where you're a moderator. Um, if you're an abstainer, you try not to eat the cookie, but then once you eat the cookie, you end up eating the whole box. These are the different personality types, and if you know you're more of an abstainer, it's probably better to go all in. And I know it's tough because you'll go through the keto flu and just a switch from eating carbs and being a sugar burner to eating um meat and then becoming a fat burner. But if you're an abstainer, whittling down the carbs is going to be torturous for you because every single day you'll think, "I can only eat 50 g today. What does that mean? Can I eat junky carbs or can I eat whole food carbs?"

But if you don't have that personality and you're more of a moderator, um the less impact on the body would be to slowly wean down the carbs, but I don't know many people that can honestly do that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. If anybody wants to follow you online, where can you direct them? Yeah, so I'm kind of an Instagram jail. I shared a few things and I think I got in trouble, so just FYI, but um so you can follow me on Instagram and YouTube, Facebook.

Um, it's all really under Nutrition with Judy and then my book is Carnivore Cure, so both websites are available and you can work with us through Nutrition with Judy. Cool. Wow, thank you very much and we will talk and I'll do your tests and we'll see what shows up. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm a super excited for you. I think that everyone deserves a life symptom free and live the life that you are meant to live. And if you have symptoms, you'll never be able to do that. I I work with so many people that if they eat something wrong, they're bedridden.

And I don't just like I got a second chance with an all-meat carnivore diet, I really believe that everyone needs and should have the right to live a life symptom-free. And if carnivore is not giving you that freedom, dig a little deeper. It's not that the diet's wrong, it's just that you might have something else additional to food. Mhm. Yeah, I want you to get tested. I I think you should I'll definitely do it. It's crazy like it's crazy.

I should be I mean, I did like I know. I literally my assumption was I was just going to get less sensitive. And I went through a ton of stress over the last number of years, which I'm sure didn't help. But like even the environmental component, like I drive through a neighborhood that has trees that are blooming and I get brain fog and do me. And it's like that's excessive. Right. No, I agree.

I think I would be shocked if you don't didn't have CIRS. Um I Yeah, let's get you tested. Um and then we can just go from there. And if you have the genetic thing and the markers will show if they're in balance. It's not like I'm saying it's in balance. The LabCorp ranges will show that you're in balance. So, I'll give you all that.

And my real thing is if you heal with this, you can help so many people heal that don't realize they're know. And that's like part of the reason I'm still looking and have been looking as cuz there's so many people that follow me and I'm like the idea with the diet is you use this and then you reintroduce foods. And there's so many people can't re- especially people who gravitate towards a lion diet, those are the people that do that diet that can't reintroduce foods. And it's like, well, something's obviously wrong. You should be able to. And I I don't know what it is. So, ideally at some point I I figure out what it is.

Hopefully, it's this. We'll see. I just I I remember like mold I don't know if mold, but I mean let's do the test for sure. Yeah, yeah, so we it it might not be just because of mold. It could have been um exposure to something. I mean, have you ever had a flood in the home? I mean, you said you had mold um exposure, right?

So, that that can affect it absolutely. So, I mean let's just test. Um I I would do the vision test. I'll I'll email you the link and just do that. If you fail it, there's a higher chance that you have CIRS, and then the blood work will come back, and then you'll know. And then from there, um you do have to test your home. The one thing um so, you moved to Florida recently?

Yeah, but I mean like I said, I've moved to 30 different houses in my life. so it could have been any of that. Yeah. Florida has um issue So, there's a lot of my clients that are from Florida, and it's because of the red tide. Something about the water, the fish. There's red tide. Um there's certain points If you live in Florida long enough, you'll see headlines of don't eat the fish in the water cuz there's red um algae bloom, red tide. And those things can be a biotoxin in your system.

And even if you're just near the ocean, and let's say that's going on where there's this whole If you just look up news headlines, um there was one I think 2 years ago. It was really massive in Florida. And then if you breathe that in, um you it will further that biotoxin illness. So, that's another thing just to consider. Um yeah, I'm I'm excited to get you tested, and then if you're positive, you should test your parents because your parents will likely I mean, that's the only way you got it too then. And this illness manifests differently. Um it for some people it's mental illness, and then for some people it's just physical breakdown.

And some people it's both. So, it just really depends. And I mean, and then there's a treatment. I mean, you take the binder, and in a month, you should notice changes. Yeah, okay. Well, then that's easy. Yeah, let's do this.

And my mom has the like physical breakdown. My dad has the mental part, and I have both. I wonder if you got both of their genes. Yeah, probably. And my brother doesn't have either of them. Really? He has no symptoms at all?

No. What? That's crazy. Isn't that weird? That's so crazy. He is super blessed. Yeah, so let's do that.

And then and then once you start healing, um you know, I think um yeah, I I hope that you share so that um and it's not even about me. No, no, no, no, definitely, definitely. So, let's hope, I don't know, someone shows up. It'd be a miracle. My hopes are not very high, but I'm definitely willing to test. It's not a miracle. I If if you are faith-based, um I I really feel I think God put me here to share about this.

I I didn't understand how I ran into this CIRS thing. One of my clients was really sick with mold. They did the mycotoxin the pee test, and everything was wrong, and I was just figuring out what protocol do I put her on, and I ran into CIRS, and I just didn't understand. I feel that um I realized carnivore, a lot of people are suffering from CIRS, and then it just annoys me that so many people online are like, "Carnivore harder." And it's not always the answer. I think for people that are really sick, they do need to eat just super clean line diet. I I believe that.

But for other people, there's just, you know, like, "Oh, just add a stick of butter." Or something else, and it's normally not the answer. Um so, yeah, I I think we can help a lot of people, and if enough people make a stink, they could fix the building codes that are making us sick. It's the building codes where they're using paper for um the walls. And then when we have a little bit of water damage, 48 hours in, there's almost guaranteed mold, and that's based on the FEMA recommendations.