Grooming Gangs: How They Occurred and How to Spot Them - From a Survivor | Samantha Smith

Introduction to Grooming Gangs

The average person's outraged and the average politician is trying to cover it up. Groups of Pakistani and Asian men, many of them work at local takeaway shops or convenience stores and they first come in ply girls with alcohol, drugs, free taxi ride and then progressively introduce them to the wider gang and will sexually exploit them. Wild. That is an issue that just started with Elon and yet Elon seems to be the only person that has been able to make mainstream politicians actually pay attention. 5 years old and my abuse started. The experience of myself and the experience of other girls was that we were at fault for the abuse that we suffered. Every number that has been thrown around was to minimize the scale of abuse because again, the people that are releasing the data are the same people who failed to protect those little girls. It has been allowed to happen for so long because those in power were too scared of being called racist.

Keir Starmer himself branded every person who is speaking out about this essentially a far-right bandwagon jumper. There's no conspiracy because it's the truth. It's it's out there in the open. Samantha Smith, welcome to my podcast. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks very much for coming on and talking about this. I know this must be an incredibly stressful topic.

It's stressful for me and I'm just reading about it online. So before we get started, could you give a brief background about who you are and what it is you do and how you came to be immersed in this topic that we're about to discuss. Yes, absolutely. So I was raised in Telford in one of the epicenters of child sexual exploitation and grooming in England. There were three key areas in England that that were I suppose most highly publicized when it comes to the to the grooming gang scandal and that was Telford, Rochdale and Rotherham. I was raised in Telford for almost my entire life. I um went to school there.

I I grew up there. I was in and out of local authority kids homes as a teenager up until I turned 18. And I am now a political commentator and a political analyst. I write for the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, the Spectator. I didn't get started talking about my own experience in Telford and my story until about 2022 when the Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein story broke and was first in in the news. At which point, obviously I again growing up in Telford, I knew my own experience. I I knew the the stories of of thousands of girls like me and it felt as though a blind eye was being turned by the media who were obsessing over this international high-profile case while ignoring a crisis in their own backyard.

And so that was when I used my platform first to speak out and and share my own story and then have have continued to do so for for the past two two and a bit years since. Okay, that makes sense. Um let's see. Let Well, let's start out talking about it because this has been wild on X in the last couple of weeks. I know you you've been talking about it for years. I didn't come across any of this information until Elon kind of splashed it all over the news a couple of weeks ago.

What's Going on in The UK

So, can you just briefly explain what's going on now in the UK with the grooming gangs? I'm going to call them grooming gangs, I think, for this episode cuz I don't know what YouTube is going to flag if I just call them what they should probably be called. So, maybe we can discuss that and see see what happens. But can you describe what's going on in the UK now, how long this has been going on just to give people on YouTube an idea of what's happening? No, absolutely. And I know a lot of people just on your point about calling grooming gangs. I do I know a lot of people would prefer they were called something else.

I think it's very important to make the distinction that they are grooming gangs because this crime is so reliant on the grooming aspect. That's what makes these these gangs so complex, so effective, so efficient, and so manipulative in their abuse and exploitation of little girls is is the way that they are able to draw them in and convince them that the abuse that they will go on to perpetrate is normal and is acceptable. And so I, and I know quite a few other survivors of grooming believe that grooming gangs are the the correct term for it. So absolutely I I agree and I'm happy to continue calling them that. Um when it comes to child sex exploitation and particularly Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs in the UK, this is an issue that is that dates back to the 1970s um in in Britain and has been investigated through a series of local reports um and local inquiries as of the the early mid-2000s. It is still going on today. Little girls are still being groomed, manipulated, exploited, and abused, and even murdered by these gangs in towns like mine in Telford, Rochdale, Rotherham, Banbury, uh Birmingham across the UK.

It isn't It isn't centered in in certain areas. Oldham isn't the first nor is it the only town to have suffered this this scandal and it is characterized particularly by groups of of Pakistani Asian Asian men of predominantly Muslim um religious affiliation working together across county lines or in within a local area. Many of them will be taxi drivers, many of them will work at local takeaway shops or convenience stores, and they first come and ply girls with alcohol, drugs, um free taxi rides, many of the girls being vulnerable, and then progressively introduce them to the wider gang and will sexually and criminally at times exploit them. Okay, so I got exposed to this a couple weeks ago, like I said, because Elon was talking about it, and some of the court transcripts came out, and they're so awful. Uh I I I can understand why people are talking about it now. I can't understand why it's been hidden for so long, but I couldn't get over how evil this is down to its core. And so I wanted to talk about it on YouTube to tell people what was going on because it's completely unacceptable.

How Grooming Gangs Operate

Um I also thought it would be helpful for people to know how these gangs go about grooming girls, so that maybe parents because if it isn't eliminate it should be eliminated now, but if it's not people should at least be aware of how this starts and how to potentially prevent it or how to know that you're being targeted to be groomed. So can we get get into that? Like what's the pattern? What do these people do to kind of entice these girls or pressure them or whatever's happening? Is there a pattern that these people use? Absolutely. And uh let me let me be clear.

I don't know like you said what YouTube will flag. Um so please do let me know if I need to change up my language or anything like that, but um it's it is it is still going on in Britain. It is it is still happening. I see it on council estates in my hometown. Other victims and survivors and and and those investigating this and who aren't turning a blind eye see it every day. We know that it's going on. Girls are coming forward that are as young as 13, 14 today, not in the 1980s, not in the early 2000s.

Today, children today are coming forward and saying, "I am being sexually exploited by Pakistani Muslim men." And that is a fact. That's an an an unavoidable fact. There is a pattern. There is a process and a very clear methodology by which these gangs target young girls. Many victims of Pakistani grooming gangs will be between the ages of 11 and and 15, although it can be older or younger. I There are girls who who were first targeted when they were 16, 17.

Um and it is across age age ranges. It's across um social classes, although again, the majority are white working-class girls. There are cases where um Asian girls or African-origin British girls have also been targeted, but the the the most common victim is a white working-class girl. And that's what we saw in in Telford, Oldham, Rotherham, Rochdale. These men will target most of the time vulnerable girls, girls who are already known to social services, who may be under local authority care, who have been abused before, whether that's by a family member or a trusted adult, who already have blurred boundaries and and a weaker understanding of what is okay for adults to do to them.

The Personal Impact of Abuse

Myself, for example, I was abused from the age of 6, and that set up my grooming later on in life as a teenager because I didn't understand that the abuse that I had suffered wasn't normal and wasn't okay. I had been taught that these men had a right to my body in a way that that no adult man ever should over a child. And so, they target the most vulnerable girls in society, and they uh uh whether it's offering them money or drugs, or alcohol, or food, or just love and attention. The boyfriend model was a very popular one uh in in Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs, for example, where the girls would refer to their abusers as their boyfriends. They would say, "Well, I've got these boyfriends. They take care of me. They do these things.

It's okay because they're my boyfriend." But, that isn't the only way that that that this happens. It can be men who, as I said, take advantage of vulnerability, who feed them, clothe them, take them places, and groom them, which is why they're called grooming gangs, and why I'm so firm on referring to them as grooming gangs, because they groom young girls, they draw them in, they make them feel safe and wanted and loved, and as though they they can trust these men, and then that's when they introduce them to the sexual abuse. It often starts with just just the main abuser, the the ringleader, or or or one member of the cell, and they will sexually abuse them, rape them, and then introduce them to their friends or their family members, their uncles, their their dads, and say, "Well, you have to do this for my dad and my uncle as well, because you did it to you did it for me, or you know, he's going to pay you for this, or you know, I I expect you to do this, otherwise I'm going to I'm going to break up with you, or I'm going to harm your family, or whatever it is that they can leverage at that point, once the girls are once victims are under their control and scared of them, and and and fear losing them, or fear what they might do to them if they do try and leave, that's when the wider group-based abuse starts. And that's how, again, girls for long periods of time are able to be abused by multiple by multiple offenders, because it it it balloons, it expands, it comes from from one person in a small circle into 10, 20, 30 men and endless endless perpetrators who all have the same approach to the victim who and who all can leverage that same control and abuse that vulnerability. So, how come this has gone on for so long? Like if this happens to one person, say say a working class girl in one of these smaller towns and they go to the police, what has been happening when they go to the police?

Political Cover-ups

Well, the the experience in my case and this is echoed across the board when it comes to to victims and survivors is that those in power turned a blind eye. I for example, when I first spoke out about my abuse, I told one of my key workers at the kids home that I was living in and she had a mandatory reporting duty and passed it on to the police. I had a detective come round to to where I was and and question me from the CSE team, the child sexual exploitation team and one of her first questions that she asked me was whether I consented to sex at any time. And bear in mind I was 5 years old when my abuse started. A child cannot consent under any terms to sexual activity and yet the the experience of myself and the experience of countless other girls was that somehow in some way those in power and in authority believed that we were at fault for the abuse that we suffered, that in some way we were active participants or that we brought it on ourselves, that it was a lifestyle choice. This is what was uh echoed in in the Telford report in particular and in Rotherham and in Rochdale, the other two towns who had independent inquiries in child sexual exploitation. It was seen that to quote the Telford report directly that police had failed in their most basic duty to prevent girls being abused and that this was due to a mixture of incompetence, ignorance and attitude towards the victims that that they were somehow responsible for their abuse.

So, girls were often labeled as child prostitutes and in fact arrested and and and charged at times for prostitution. When in reality they were being abused and raped on a nightly basis by adult Pakistani Muslim men against their will. They were called I I don't You can bleep this out obviously if it's not if it will get flagged by YouTube, but they were called white slags and Paki shaggers and told that essentially there was no case to answer because they must have consented that it was their fault, that they were troublemakers, and that it was a lifestyle choice. And so, continually when girls were speaking out and this is this is another key point. It isn't as if victims weren't coming forward because victims were. Victims and their parents would bang down the doors of police stations, go to sexual health clinics, track down the perpetrators, hand in lists of abusers, and police and local authorities and and key workers would take no action. They were aware of the abuses, they were aware of what was going on, but they simply did not care nor believe that the girls were deserving of the support and protection that they owed them.

Just insane. It's just insane. And Okay, and then so there are numbers being thrown around about how many people this has happened to and I know it's gone like depending on who you ask, it's like in the thousands and then 250,000 has been tossed around. What do you think? Like what numbers do you think are reasonable for how many people this has happened to? There's no reasonable number in my in my opinion and this Oh, absolutely not. Yeah, I think that every number that is being thrown around has it previously was to minimize and and try and reduce the scale of abuse and and downplay it by local authorities because again, the people that are releasing the data are the same people who failed to protect those little girls.

Child sexual exploitation and grooming gang statistics aren't separately recorded in national databases and by the police or by the Office for National Statistics and that's by design. It's It's entirely intentional because if they can't hide from the numbers, they'll suppress them instead. And so everything is amalgamated under the umbrella of child sexual abuse which includes every kind of abuse, whether it's abuse by a family member, priests abusing children, anything. Any kind of sexual abuse in the UK is all bandied under the same general figure. We don't have a statistical breakdown of the different kinds of abuse. We have it by age range, we have it by ethnicity for child sexual abuse, but nothing when it comes to child sexual exploitation in particular and and grooming gangs based sexual abuse. So, whether it's 1,000 or 100,000 girls, we have no way of knowing.

The only thing that I can speak from is my own experience and I will say that in Telford, I don't know a single person that has lived in Telford from the majority of their lives that doesn't know a girl who was abused by Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs, who was victimized by child sexual exploitation, who was raped and exploited and threatened and manipulated and even killed by these men. It is a cautionary tale and something that was used as a don't be like them. You know You know what happened to them. Be better. Don't Don't fall into the same trap as them and yet again, it was never the girls' fault. We all We all know someone that experienced it or experienced it ourselves and no no figure could ever truly capture the level of and scale of of abuse and and the impact of this on on like mine. Well, it it's absolutely ridiculous for full adults to be suggesting that somebody who's even 14, even the numbers like 16 and 17, those are still young people.

Like I think anybody reasonable who thinks about themselves at 16 or 17 is like, yeah, I was naive and I was a kid, you know, for a while. But then you when you see these numbers that are like 10, 11, 12, well, I can't believe that anybody who went through that, who went to an adult, I don't understand what frame of mind the adult could be in to say, "Well, did you consent?" It's like your brain isn't even fully developed yet for a while. Like how can you even bring up the idea of consenting? It's so infuriating. It's unbelievable. Absolutely.

And it's also worth saying that in the UK, a child is any person under the age of 18, even though the age of consent is 16 in the UK under the Children's Act 1996.

Authorities Downplaying Sexual Abuse

And uh per the Sexual Offences Act of it is it is under 18 that still counts as a child. So, whether you're 16 or 17 getting raped by an adult, you are still a child. You might there might be a legal age of consent, but you are still classified as a child and vulnerable and and and it determines that you require prioritized protection and enhanced protection because there is an understanding under the law in England that you are still not adult enough, not mature enough, not developed enough to be able to be making adult decisions or to be subjected to adult acts. And so, even a 16, 17-year-old, there is no excuse for police, local authorities, social workers, sexual health clinic workers to be saying that, "You you consented to this. You deserved this. You brought this on yourself." Under no circumstances is a child ever responsible for the abuse that they suffered and yet that's what we were made to feel.

Yeah. I mean, bringing age into it is worse. Like this happening to young people is worse, but even people who are over the age of 18 if this happened to it's still unacceptable. Like it's not like it would be okay as soon as you hit 18. The entire Nothing about any of it is even remotely okay. Um we should talk about So since Elon kind of blew it up um what has the UK's response been like? I know that there was just a vote for a national inquiry so we can talk about how that went.

Um so I guess let's start with from what like what are you seeing? Is anything happening in the UK on the ground or are people talking about it more saying like thank goodness people are talking about it?

The UK's Response to All This

Like what's the average person's response to this? The average person's outraged and the average politician is trying to cover it up. That's what it comes down to I think. Yeah. In in the UK there has always been an outcry of of public outrage when it comes to child sexual exploitation and the people that have seen it with their own eyes or experienced it have been speaking out for years. It isn't an issue that just started with Elon and yet Elon seems to be the only person that has been able to make mainstream politicians actually pay attention and and pull their fingers out on this issue because like you said on the ground everybody believes that this is abhorrent. Everybody believes that this should have had more decisive action taken decades ago and that it shouldn't still be going on.

But those in power, those in positions of power, even after the the groundswell of international scrutiny and and media coverage that followed Elon's picking up of the cases and and of the scandal they've done nothing but try and cover it up. The vote in the Commons the other day, the parliamentary uh vote failed. It was defeated by the Labour Party, who may I add are the are the party who rule in most of the the local authorities where child sexual exploitation was rife and is rife. Telford is a Labour-led council. Rotherham and Rochdale both Labour-run. Oldham Labour-run. Every every major city or town that has been affected by child sexual exploitation has Labour politicians in charge.

And Keir Starmer himself then branded every person who is is speaking out about this essentially a far-right bandwagon jumper. So, yes, the public believes in this. Yes, the public wants action, but I've seen nothing of note from politicians. And the Labour Party in fact have gone even further in closing ranks around those who who could potentially be held responsible for the failings and are continuing to blame the victims, blame the whistleblowers, try and deny, silence, avoid, and shift the blame onto everyone but themselves. We've seen a couple of outliers come out and and say that we should have a national inquiry, but for example, the Rotherham and Rochdale MPs have both said that they would now support a limited inquiry into child sexual exploitation, which by the way I I personally believe they're only saying to cover their own necks in their constituencies because imagine being the MP for that area and voting against a national inquiry into the biggest scandal and and the biggest injustice that young girls in their area faced.

Parliament's National Inquiry Vote

And yet those same MPs voted against a national inquiry in Parliament the other day. So, the action I think has been very performative, that which has been taken. And the majority of politicians have taken no action at all or in fact have have tried to uh to block the cause even more. Yeah, ridiculous. I think for for people listening who aren't aware, the Labour Party would be they had more liberal values. If you wanted to compare it to the US, they had more liberal values than Conservative parties. It's like kind of the equivalent in the UK.

Uh and they just had a vote and what was what were the numbers? I couldn't believe the numbers. It was like something like you might know them, but 311 311 It was 364 MPs that voted against a national inquiry into child sexual exploitation and grooming gangs and 111 MPs that voted in favor of it. Not a single Labour MP broke ranks to vote for a national inquiry. And the entire Liberal Democrats voted for to to vote to voted to block it. Yeah, that that's so crazy. Has anyone come out with any excuses?

Like we were voting against it because is it just that it's a right-wing conspiracy? Like what's the excuse for voting against an inquiry into child sexual abuse? Like what could what's their excuse? There's been a whole host of excuses. The The major one that that MPs have said is that because it was an amendment on an existing bill, so the the vote was tallied on by the Conservative Party leader as a an amendment to the schools bill, I believe it was. Saying that an inquiry a national inquiry into grooming gangs should be held and they were saying that if the amendment passed and it would kill the bill and reduce protection for vulnerable children, which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. Saying that they want to protect vulnerable children and that's why they want to vote against this while actively turning their backs on victims and survivors of child sexual exploitation is beyond the pale.

It's It's laughable that they're trying to to take the moral high ground. That is the the major one is that if they voted in favor of this amendment, then the bill would be killed and that it would slow down uh the process of of of essentially shutting down academies and bringing them back under the the state school system. That was the main one that most Labour MPs quoted. Others said that a national inquiry wasn't uh necessary, that local inquiries are sufficient for such as in Telford, Rotherham, and Rochdale. And yet, Telford, Rotherham, and Rochdale all also requested national inquiries prior to being told, "No, you have to do it yourselves." And and being shut down by by the previous Conservative government. Um other MPs said that it was a politicized attack on the Labour Party and that it was the far right that had hijacked the cause.

That was what Keir Starmer himself said, by the way, the leader of the Labour Party, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom did a public press conference and called those speaking out about child sexual exploitation members of the far right. There was a complete and total disregard for the victims and survivors and and an attempt to essentially brand all those who who talk out about it right-wing Islamophobes. Yeah. Did you hear Did you hear about this MP I just saw this floating around on X, Ivor Caplin, who was a former MP who was kicked out? If If anyone listening, this is so disturbing. So, he was a former MP, he was kicked out. a former MP, a former minister. He was He was a member of the government.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. Uh he was kicked out last year or or something like that. If you go to his X, he has full-on porn on his X. About 90% of it is gay porn, 10% of it is him backing up Keir Starmer. Yes. It's some of the most disturbing footage I've seen.

The Dark Side of the Labor Party?

It and it's full on there and there are other members of the Labour Party that are following him. It gets me pretty conspiratorial. Like, why would people vote against looking into child sexual exploitation? And then you see this guy and it's like, is that what the Labour Party kind of looks like? Like, the dark side of it? It's worth mentioning Ivor Caplin, the the MP, the former MP and former minister that you're talking about. He was on national TV just last week attacking those who were speaking out about child sexual exploitation and saying that he didn't support a national inquiry and that it was far-right agitators who were attempting to thwart the Labour government by bringing this issue up and a week later, just a couple of days ago, he was arrested during a pedophile sting for allegedly trying to meet up with a 15-year-old for sex and sending indecent images to to said child.

He's sitting in jail right now on child sex abuse charges. Which is why his X posts are still available. It's insane. You can't make it up. Like, I don't know. This is like trigger warning for anyone who's going to go look at that cuz it's there's actual porn on his X, but it's like, so that's the guy who was saying don't look into pedophilia. Okay. guy that was followed by high-ranking Labour ministers and officials.

That's the man who is representative of the Labour Party and and was supported by them and and kept within their ranks until I believe it was June 2024. He was a member of the Labour Party and was a high-ranking official and continues and continued to have involvement with Labour politicians past his suspension. Yeah, so it's so disturbing. It's like it sounds You know, if you didn't want to think people had the capacity to commit evil, you'd think it was a conspiracy and then it's so blatant such a blatant example of what's going on right there. It's really horrifying. Okay, so I I believe it's true. You can't hide from the facts.

There's no conspiracy because it it is a documented cover-up. The attitude of of labor authorities, local councils, politicians, the police, social workers, good social workers, sexual health clinic workers, teachers, it was a cover-up, an orchestrated cover-up for decades and it's continuing to this day. So, there's no conspiracy because it's the truth. It's it's out there in the open. Are these people, do you think, involved in the cover-up? So, I know that there was the argument like we can't talk about who's committing these crimes because that would be Islamophobic. That was a huge cover-up.

And now there seems to be a like pedophilia element to it. So, are these people I'm just wondering who these people are. I don't understand how there can be so many people involved in a cover-up to this scale. Like like you said, police, members of parliament, the the prime minister isn't even looking into it.

How Deep Does This Go?

It's like how deep does this go? Well, in in Greater Manchester, for example, there were police officers, serving police officers that were charged with being associated with the Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs who were charged with child sexual abuse crimes and were active serving police officers at the time. There are are members of of local government and current MPs who played a part in the cover-up of this scandal. The Telford MP, Shaun Davis, for example, was a previous council leader. He was the leader of Telford and Wrekin Council from 2015 until 2024 and was a member of the Labour cabinet in from 2011. This was during, as I said, the I I suppose the the height of the investigations into CSE in Telford, and he and his council continued to deny responsibility for the failings. He himself was silent on the on the day that the Telford report was was published, and he said at one point that he was 3 years old at the time that CSE was going on.

Well, that's not true because I'm in my early 20s, and CSE was going on and still is going on in Telford. He is a member of of Parliament right now. He's a Labour MP, a sitting Labour MP, despite his failings and despite his role in the child sexual abuse and and exploitation scandal in Telford. His Members of his cabinet, for example, said the children and young people cabinet member in Telford at the time said that the journalist who broke the story on Telford was making up to be able to sell a survivor's book, and that the and a number another senior Labour politician at the time in Telford said that the numbers were made on the up on the back of a fag packet. These are politicians who are still in post in Telford or in in other areas. Some of them have moved to to other local authorities. We have the former leader of the council who's now a sitting MP, and by the way, was absent for the vote, didn't vote at all.

He was missing in action in Parliament that day. Uh the Telford MP didn't vote at all on whether there should be a national inquiry when Telford is thought to be the highest uh is thought to have the highest victim count of any local area. So, yes, there was there was involvement at all all levels, and there continues to be. It pervades all the way up into Parliament. Yeah, crazy. I guess it would make sense that evil people would get into the government to try and protect themselves. So, they have power, so they they people don't look into what they're doing.

So, I guess on that level it makes sense. Oh my gosh. Okay, so what should people, now that they've just if if the Labour Party is a problem and they're not going to look into this, when is the next election in the UK?

Where Do We Go From Here?

Is this, I guess for lack of a better word, evil so entrenched that there's going to be able to be a switch in government so people look into it? Like, where do people go from here? Unfortunately, the Labour Party commands the largest parliamentary majority, I believe, in in history. It's one of the largest parliamentary majorities ever. And the next general election won't happen until at least 2029. Oh my gosh. Okay, when did they get put So, did they just get put in power?

Just get got put in power. It's been, I believe, less than 150 days since they were in power, since they since they were elected into office. It was the Conservatives that were in power previously. And they have an entire parliamentary term to serve, which is I think says a lot considering how hated the Labour government is already. Six months into their term, they've managed to crash the economy, vote against inquiry into child sexual exploitation. They also took away heating payments for vulnerable pensioners this winter, by the way. That was another scandal.

They um locked up 73-year-old pensioners for tweeting about the Southworth riots. This is 6 months of a Labour government. We've got 4 and 1/2 years left of it. And the only way that a that a vote would be able to be called, a new general election, was if MPs voted for it. And when there are 300 old Labour MPs in Parliament and only about 140 or 170 non-Labour MPs, the chances of that happening are slim to none. This is bad. Yeah, that's not good.

Yeah. Like, I don't know if you saw there was a a public petition for a general election that had I believe it reached over 3 million signatures that of British residents who were vote who put in a public petition to Parliament saying that there should be an a general election called and it was debated in Parliament for about 5 minutes in which time they said not going to happen, move on. And that issue was dead even though 3 million people vote said that it it should happen. We all knew that that was the case. We knew that a public petition wouldn't do anything but it was more symbolic than anything to show the level of discontent and anger at the Labour regime. This is a tricky situation. Mhm.

After after like reading details into these cases a couple weeks ago I was like, why aren't people I I get it. But at what point are people going to take to the streets? Like really. It's because like how far does your government have to push you before there's some sort of uprising. Now in Canada, this isn't associated to like child sexual exploitation which is far worse but in Canada there were the trucker protests. There was the trucker protests which which actually garnered you know that when it garnered negative attention but it also garnered positive attention. So people did end up taking to the streets but like I don't know what else there is to do at this point.

I'm concerned that if people don't keep talking about it, it's just going to be like something that comes up and then something else bad is going to happen somewhere else and people are slowly going to forget about it and then all these people in all these like girls in Britain are going to be stuck in this situation and like people aren't going to know what to do. I mean I've been speaking out about it for about 2 and 1/2 years. Many of the victims and survivors have been speaking out about it for 10 or 20 years and we've seen the news cycles forget about child sexual exploitation and grooming gangs time and time again. I can count on I can't count on two hands the number of times that it's hit national headlines. People have said, "Oh, we need to do better. We need to to take action and get justice for victims." And then the 24-hour news cycle ends and people move on to the next political crisis and we're already seeing that in the UK right now.

Politicians are moving on and and and focusing on other things because it isn't the hot topic anymore. And the the press is starting to die down. The other thing when you talk when you said to the streets, people have taken to the streets before. They took to the streets after the Southport murders. I don't know whether you heard much about that, but three No, can you describe that? Yeah, so this was a a few months ago. This was right at the start of Keir Starmer's um Keir Starmer's time in office.

Three little girls trying to think of another word for rain? Yes, yeah. He He is ruling like a dictator. I'm trying to I'm trying to keep my my language professional, but he he deserves very little respect in my opinion. Um right at the start of his term three little girls in in a town called Southport were murdered by a domestic terrorist, a a man called Axel uh Ruka Banda. I can't pronounce his his his surname, but he was he opened fire on a little girls' dance class on a child's dance class in Southport. And three little girls were murdered.

And the ensuing um uproar as a result of that led to nationwide protests because it was seen that there was a cover-up. And that uh the influx of illegal migration had a had a hand in the the increasing radicalization because this this was this is suspected to be an Islamic terrorist attack. So a a lone perpetrator committing an act of terror on British soil, and murdering three little girls, opening fire in a kids dance class, to wage a holy war. And he his actions that and then in the ensuing media coverage where they for example only published photos of him from an as an 11-year-old boy and talked about how he was a an aspiring West End star and a shy schoolboy trying to paint him as a sympathetic victim when he again was arrested on charges of murdering three little girls led to nationwide riots and as a result of that there were hundreds of arrests. People were arrested for posting things on social media on X. People were arrested for for taking to the streets and protesting against illegal migration in Britain. There are people who have already they set up 24-hour course to deal with this.

Bear in mind at a time when Kier Starmer is currently releasing sexual offenders and violent offenders with with sentences of less than 2 years onto our streets because of prison crowding. He's sending pensioners to prison for 2 years for social media posts. That was the Southport riots. That was the last instance of public demonstrations and that's what happened to those protesters.

Fear of Speaking Out

And so the fear right now I I I absolutely believe is retribution from the government and from police and from local authorities that again the very same people who failed little girls in towns like mine will punish those who try to speak out. I myself had the police show up at my door when I went on national TV to speak about grooming gangs and when I said that it was still going on in Telford and in towns across the UK and when I said that police were still turning a blind eye the very next day West Mercia police showed up at my doorstep and tried to demand that I go down to the police station with them for an interview because quote unquote when you go on TV to talk about grooming gangs you should expect to hear from us. They tried to threaten me and intimidate me into silence and try to to penalize me for exposing their failings. Another survivor, Sammy Woodhouse, just the other day about I think four or five days ago had a call from South Yorkshire Police saying that she had to remove Twitter posts speaking about her story, her life experience as a victim of of Pakistani Muslim child sexual exploitation because it was going to it was going to jeopardize a case and she could potentially be held in contempt of court and that she was at fault for tweeting about it publicly and sharing publicly available information that had been reported on the BBC and the national news. They target survivors, they target whistleblowers, they target anyone who dares to go against the established narrative. And so that's why people aren't taking to the streets, I believe. Because the rule of the law that's supposed to protect vulnerable uh children is instead going to punish them and penalize them and throw them in prison for 2 years for speaking about it on X.

That's so crazy that that's where like that's the state of Yeah. That's the state of things right now. It's so crazy. So I get that. So what would happen, do you think, in the UK if there was something like the trucker convoy, which was largely a peaceful like show up with trucks, there were people there, everyone was pretty chill. Like there wasn't a lot going on. They were just like, "Hey, we're here.

You have to change things." You know, is this what the rallies uh looked like on your side of the pond? Many of them were, some of them weren't. So there were a lot of arrests and I I absolutely don't condone the violent protests that occurred after the Southport um attacks. But again, it was painted by Keir Starmer and by the Labour regime as far-right agitators and far-right extremists and bigots who were taking to the streets and looting and burning down buildings and and committing Islamophobic attacks when the majority of those that spoke out and that protested were entirely peaceful and did nothing wrong and were simply voicing their concerns, their very legitimate concerns about the state of of illegal migration in Britain. That was the case in the Southport riots and even now free speech I don't believe exists in Britain. You can't you can't speak freely about anything that goes against the mainstream quota because you will be targeted.

I went on national TV, spoke about it in entirely peaceful way. I think you know, we can agree that that is a a perfectly acceptable forum to to to speak about this especially in my role as a journalist and I was targeted. I was contacted by police and they tried to intimidate me into silence. So, no matter what you do, no matter how legitimate your concerns are, no matter how properly you follow the processes, those in power don't care about the processes. They all they care about is covering up their own failings and continuing to silence those who could expose them. So then, what do you do in a situation like that? Do people ask for like Elon was like we need international pressure basically at this point because you can't get help if you're on the inside which I I understand like I I said before when do people take to the streets?

But if you're getting arrested for social media posts, it's just such a crazy position to be in. And I think part of the reason other than the fact that it's so evil that it needs to be exposed. So that's why I wanted to talk about it and cuz it's really upsetting that that can that can happen, you know, just in general. But Canada and the UK are you know, kind of close, right? It is like Definitely. half combined with America and the UK or something is where Canada is. There's a lot of crossover and a There's a crossover. laws are based off English common law as well. So, it's a very similar governmental structure and and and way of operating, especially under Trudeau.

I think Trudeau's Yeah. um leadership, if you can call it that, and Keir Starmer are There's many, many parallels in a in a very bad way. Yeah. So, part part of the reason to talk about it, other than the UK needs to help, terribly terribly needs help, is how do we make sure this stops? Like, I know Bill C-63, which is on pause right now, because of this whole Trudeau's going to resign thing that's happening in Canada. That was similar to what happened in the UK, which it was going to allow people to be arrested for social media posts, which sounds so crazy to the average American. It's like, how could that even happen? But, there's no There really isn't like freedoms of speech built in to the country like there is in the US.

It was like, this could spread. Like, this isn't something Unfortunately, the UK is an example right now, but it's not special, you know? No. It could spread. So, people need to know what to look for and to make sure it doesn't happen and to not be naive and to say absolutely not. Absolutely.

Free Speech and Left Wing Ideology

This is a a left-wing agenda, for sure. And it, you know, it might sound like I have my tinfoil hat on, but I've seen this in action in Britain for years. One of the big One of the big issues on free speech at the moment that's being debated is whether there should be a an updated version of Islamophobia in the Equality Act, and whether Islamophobia should be uh specifically defined in law as anyone, essentially, who speaks out or criticizes Islam in any way, that they can be subject to hate speech crimes and and that they could be prosecuted under English law. That is being debated at the moment, and Keir Starmer is has stated previously that he would be in favor of updating the the definition to essentially introduce blasphemy laws on Islam. No other religion, just Islam. So, it is it is accelerated in Britain. It is happening quicker than it's happening in Canada or in the US or in Australia and New Zealand, but it's happening across the globe.

It's just that that Britain is is I suppose the cautionary tale for other governments and other countries of what can happen when this sort of legislation is allowed to to pass uncontested and when those in power don't have the courage or conviction to stand up for the rights of their people. I think it's extremely naive as well for a number of reasons, but if you look at places like the UAE, for example, they've identified a lot of extremist groups Mhm. and all right uh and and don't stand for it, right? They're like, "Absolutely not. Not here." You know, and that's a Muslim area, too. And they're picky with who's allowed. Like, don't allow the extremist horrible evil people to be around our citizens.

And so, instead they all come to Britain and and Europe. They Exactly. They leave. They're like, "You can't be here." Kick them out and then they all go to Western places where they're just like, "You're all welcome. You can acclimate into society." When they've literally been kicked out.

There was a case in um that was in in the news recently in Britain of an asylum seeker from the Middle East who came who came across to Greece first and successfully applied for asylum in Greece as his first port of call. He was granted asylum in Greece and it obviously indefinite leave to remain and then he decided to leave Greece and cross the channel illegally and come to Britain because he knew that he would get a better deal. He knew and I quote that the taxes that the benefits would be better and that the quality of life is better in England and that the government would give him more if he came to Britain illegally. And so he left a safe country where he had claimed asylum and been granted it to come to Britain because he knew that it was easier and that he would he would get more. He would be able to leech off of the state more. And that is a case that's repeated in the tens of thousands. I I believe it was over it was hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants that came into Britain last year alone.

Um and it it's happening year on year. The numbers are growing. It's population displacement at its at its core. Bradford, for example, there's a postcode in Bradford. I can't remember the exact the exact area, but there is an area in Bradford where I 72% I think is the exact figure of citizens living there arrived in Britain after 2011. That is not British-born. They are they are not um British citizens by birth.

These are people who have come into the country and are creating uh microcosms of their own of their own home countries in our nation and are being allowed to establish these epicenters where there is very little English communication. The level of of integration with the rest of society is minimal. They don't like to associate with with British people and and with with white people. They resent them in fact um and and are establishing their own microcosms of of of the Muslim ideal. And again, I I will probably be branded a right-wing extremist and a bigot for saying this, but the numbers don't lie. The figures don't lie. The figures that we do have are very clear on this issue and there are many places in the UK where this just is is is rife and it's continuing to grow.

So one thing I've been thinking about I guess in the last couple weeks after learning about all this is how much of this is illegal immigration, how much of this is because we've never really had societies where we've incorporated really different parts of the world together and just been like oh everything's going to be hunky-dory. What can we do to make sure we're not repeating this in Canada and America and Australia?

Illegal Immigration and Deportation

Um obviously illegal immigration is a problem but I was thinking then this is my perspective so I want to know what yours is is these areas that are more prone to extremism which seems to be occurring especially in specific areas in the Middle East where certain aspects of Islam uh can be just go really awry, right? For for lack of a better explanation is wouldn't it be simple for the government just to say hey people who are coming from this area, let's do a little bit more research. Like when I know when people are immigrating to UAE, they look at your social media. They kind of like look and see who you are and I don't think people who are and maybe I'm being naive but I don't think people who are extremists are not really outward with that perspective. Like you can go on people's ex accounts and they tell you what they think. They're not hiding it and pretending to be like you because they full on disagree with how you live, what your society looks like and they'll tell you it's wrong and that they want it to change and maybe don't let those people in. Yeah.

And this is why so many of them come illegally and cross the channel in Britain because if you're coming if you're coming by a plane and you're crossing the border legally then you you have to give them your name. You have to give them your passport. You have to tell them who you are. Whereas if you come over on a dinghy and cross the channel, you don't have to give any of that. You can give any name, any age. There have been countless cases where adult men have have claimed that they were teenagers with a completely different date of birth and and country of origin to hide the fact that they had criminal records in their home countries and that they under no circumstances would be allowed in the country otherwise. And we do have terrorism prevention organizations and schemes.

We have to prevent scheme in in Britain where those who are seen as being at risk of radicalization and extremism in Britain are reported and monitored by national authorities. But again, it doesn't work. It doesn't operate because they are hiding in plain sight. The Southport killer who's currently on trial, he was known to prevent before he committed his crimes. He was already on national radars for radicalization and extremism. And yet he was he was able to carry out his crimes without any efforts to prevent them. It is a completely naive to assume that the government in any country, whether it's Canada or the UK or even the US, has any real understanding of who is crossing their borders.

In Britain, we have no idea who the hundreds of thousands of of predominantly adult men are crossing into our country every day. It was found that 10% of the male adult population of Albania currently lives in the UK. And Albania had to declare itself a safe Albania had to be declared a safe country by the UK government because so many Albanian men of working age, of fighting age, were coming into Britain illegally and then claiming asylum because they were saying that Albania was an unsafe country. And so the previous conservative government, with much opposition from Labour, declared Albania a safe country so that they were no longer able to do that, but 10% of the current adult male population of Albania is residing in Britain. That's insane. Okay. So, then what's the solution here?

Is the solution just I mean stronger borders, obviously. Is that the main solution? Stronger borders and deporting all foreign criminals. Again, Yeah. government dismantled the previous conservative government's plan and and tried to block it at every turn when the conservatives were in government to deport foreign criminals to Rwanda. It's a scheme it's not something that is unique to Britain. Other other uh foreign nations had deported criminals to different countries before or had stored them on uh floating container ships. There was a a barge that was used by the British government that previously been used by Germany, by I believe a couple of Scandinavian countries to house illegal migrants while they were being processed through the system and and while it was figured out exactly who they were and what to do with them.

And the Labor regime said that it was racist and inhumane and and tried to block it. They blocked all of the flights to Rwanda that the previous uh home secretaries tried to to to set off. Um and then eventually when they got into government dismantled the scheme altogether and said that they would instead process uh asylum claims quicker so that they could sort out the backlog. But in reality, all that means is letting more people stay in this country for longer. And in fact, the illegal migration figures have risen since Labor came into power because now there's no there's absolutely no disincentive to not come illegal illegally to Britain. Um Yeah. It's it's unconscionable that that members of Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs in Britain who are foreign nationals, Pakistani citizens, are still living in Britain after being convicted of sex crimes.

I don't I believe from my knowledge there's not a single criminal who has been convicted of being a Pakistani Muslim grooming gang member convicted of raping, exploiting, murdering little girls in Britain on British soil. Not a single one of them has been deported. And in fact, many of them have been released and are currently living in the same communities that they abused little girls in just a few short years ago. So, do you know what the Labour Party's argument for like what's their argument against deporting people who've been convicted of crimes, like legal immigrants that have been convicted of crimes? Like what's the downside of deporting those people? They have to have some excuse, right? Like we can't It violates the human rights.

Oh my gosh. Can you imagine saying that it would violate the rights of a person who violated little girls for years, who exploited, murdered, trafficked, sodomized, raped little girls on British soil, who took away their human rights to say that they are more deserving of protection and support than those little girls were that they abused? That's what That's what the Labour Party says. That's what the Home Office says. That's what politicians say, that it's that it's illegal because it breaches their human rights. There was a a case again a couple of months ago where a foreign national who was convicted of raping, I believe it was a 13-year-old girl, was told that he would be allowed to stay in Britain because it would violate his his right to a family, his family rights. There was another case of a foreign national who raped his own stepdaughter and was told that it would violate his right to a family life, his human right to a family life to be deported to his home country.

Bear in mind, he had raped the stepdaughter to whom he supposedly had an an inalienable human right to a life with. The very same The very same child that he abused was the reason that he was able to stay in this country. I just can't like I can't even wrap my head. It It I can't understand it at all. It's so like it's so evil, but it's also so naive and so stupid.

The Nuances of Multiculturalism

It's like can people actually be that that naive that level like I can understand being I can understand from a liberal perspective being like multiculturalism is only a benefit like everybody wants the good of the world, you know, everyone's innately good and they'll all group together and it'll be this beautiful thing. Like I can understand that that was the vision. But once you hear about things, can't you be like, okay, maybe not everyone thinks like me. I just It's so shocking. the case and it is an insult to suggest that the issue of Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs and in general illegal migration and the level the level of illegal migrant crime in the UK as a result of anything other than failed multiculturalism and failed integration. I'm the daughter of first generation immigrant myself. I'm biracial. My mother came here in the early 2000s legally as an economic migrant and has paid taxes in the country for 20 odd years, has contributed to society as a British citizen, is proud to be British, and wants the good of society.

It is an insult to equate her and her right to be in the country to illegal migrants and and and uh malicious foreign actors who come to our establish their own way of life, refuse to integrate, refuse to learn English, refuse to be a part of our society, and seek nothing but to dismantle it at its very core, who resent it and criticize it and and label British society and British people evil and racist and and uh bigoted while reaping the benefits of the country that they hate and despise so much. That 100% 100%. So, how on a government level do places avoid that? Do you think it's almost all illegal immigrants or is this also a legal immigration problem? It is also a legal immigration problem. not opposed Like I know there are a lot of conservatives that are especially with all the illegal immigration problems that we're having, there are a lot of conservatives that are like, "No more immigration, period." And that's always been an aspect of conservatism. And I would I was never on board with that cuz I can see the benefits of immigration as long as people are want to come to your country and become Yeah, become part of the country.

They don't want to bring their country here. Like you want to go to Britain because Britain's beautiful, the people are wonderful, and you want to be British, right? Yeah.

Getting Migration Under Control

So, it's just controlled. You think just a lower rate of legal immigration? What do you mean by controlled? Absolutely. And this is the thing, British conservatism, I would say, has always been more center-of-right than, for example, American Republicanism. It is The British political system is far more left-leaning as a whole than sure. most other most other Western nations. I think that Britain traditionally has been has always been a very moderate country.

Even British conservatives, I mean, British conservatives, the Conservative Party was the party that legalized gay marriage in 2013. They uh you know, are are broadly aligned in a lot of of social issues, for example. But it is it is definitely a migration problem in general, legal and illegal migration. And Britain was always a case study of the ideal migration model up until about 2008. Because up until about 2008, we had a net migration figure of between 60 to 80,000 per year. Last year, I'm I'm pretty sure it was around 450,000 net migration into the country. Much of this being illegal, but a lot of it also being legal.

The previous Conservative government tried to tighten a lot of the the rules on low-skilled workers and temporary workers. As I I know it's happening in Canada right now with the tightening up of the student visa and permanent residency requirements because of the the influx of Indian migrants into Canada in the last decade. But in Britain, we always had a very very tightly controlled and very functional migration system up until about 2008. And since then, migration figures have just built and built and built and are now at an untenable level. And it's due to the ignorance and I think the willful uh optimism of left-wing parties, and even the conservatives fell victim to this in not wanting to come across as racist, as we see in the Pakistani Muslim grooming gang scandal. Not wanting to be seen as racist, not wanting to be divisive, not wanting to go against the the idea of well, migration is good in in general as a whole, because I do believe that migration is good when it's controlled. Controlled migration is good, and economic migration in general is not a bad thing.

It's when it's uncontrolled and when it's out of out of control, that it that it becomes an issue, as we're seeing in Britain. And so now, we're at this point where the figures are so high and the system is so broken that governments have no idea how to roll it back and how and how to claw back control. And when you have a government like labor in in power who are inclined to say that anyone who opposes migration is racist, how how exactly are you supposed to challenge that narrative? Mhm. Mhm. Okay, that makes sense to me. I guess to to play devil's advocate, so if this grooming gang situation has been going on since the '70s, that was when immigration was still more controlled, right?

So, there's still some sort of problem even with Well, what do you think? I think the social issues have been compounding for decades. It isn't It didn't happen overnight. It feels as though it it happened a little bit overnight because we're only just seeing the issue come into mainstream global consciousness, but the issue in Britain has been building for decades and particularly when it comes to the British Pakistani community, these aren't illegal migrants for the most part. These are legal migrants into the country. There is a very large Pakistani community in Britain. Many of them are perfectly respectable, um, legal and contributing members of society who are also proud to be British, but there is a very significant population who are not and who do not follow the rule of British law, who believe that they are exempt, who believe that their way of life is fundamentally opposed to to British society and that their way of life is correct.

And so they've established, as I said, micro communities in areas in Britain and they operate under their their own rules and regulations and and those in power are too scared to call it out because they don't want to be called racist. And so in in Britain, the issue with the British Pakistani community in particular is one of fear and a lack of of of controlled opposition or any opposition really because uh, Britain again is a very tolerant country, has always been a a very open society and there is I mean, you know, it it talks about that uh, Britain is very racist and that that people don't like the people that don't look like them, but uh, I believe it was the ONS and and and YouGov after the most recent census ran a a nationwide poll of about 200,000 um, respondents asking about their opinions on various social issues, one of them being of of race and ethnicity and it was actually found that Britain was one of the least racist countries when compared to global statistics on on uh, you know migration and on multiculturalism and on all of these social issues that we are being told daily we are wrong and extremists and bigots are regarding.

Correcting Racial Narratives about the UK

And so the social issues in Britain have been compounded due to a a false narrative that that any opposition to multiculturalism is racist. And so I think that the British Pakistani community in in particular has always established a double standard when it comes to their their treatment in British society. You know, we don't hear about Christianophobia or Sikhophobia or Hinduphobia. It's always Islamophobia in Britain. It's always that people are bigoted or or discriminating against Muslims. But that isn't the case. It's just that that community in particular expects to be treated differently and expects a an enhanced level of immunity to the issues that would otherwise in Britain land you in prison or or or would be called out by the great and the good.

And because of fears of being racist as again was seen in in the Telford report, the Rotherham report, the the Rochdale report was reported as uh absolutely the cause of child sex exploitation and not being called out by those in power. Of course in Telford it was said that it was due to nervousness about race. It has been allowed to happen for so long and compound and build because those in power were too scared of being called racist to call out those communities who were failing to to uphold their British values and duties. Wild. Okay. Well, Samantha, if people want to keep up with you, where should we go online? Is there anywhere you recommend to read more about this or at least we should know your social media handles.

I'll also link them in the description for anybody listening. Yes, I am on Twitter on X, sorry. It's still in my brain that it's Twitter, but um I'm on X under @samanthataghoy and I also write as I said for The Daily Mail, Telegraph, The Spectator and I do political analysis and and and commentary on various national news channels. So, if you search Samantha Smith on YouTube, I'll come up. I might be the third or fourth result, but you'll find my interviews and and my stuff pretty pretty easily um on there. Okay, well, thank you very much for coming on and talking about this. Um sorry that you went through everything you went through.

That's terrible. I'm really glad you're still talking about it and trying to I don't know warn people and implement change. It's really important, so hopefully something good comes of it. Uh yeah, so thanks again for coming on. Thank you so much for having me and thank you for bringing this to attention when you had no duty to. It's It's funny how it seems like North Americans are the ones who are fighting for us more than our government and and our politicians ever did. So, thank you very much.

Yeah, well, I mean, it would should make anybody sane unbelievably angry. I feel like if that's not your response, then there's something wrong. Like you can't you can't look at the I might actually link some of the some of the X posts um so people can see what I mean by transcripts, so people know how so people get a better idea of how awful this is. So, I'll put those in the description because anyone who reads those and isn't like appalled morally to a soul level, there's something wrong. Absolutely and you know, obviously only you can only say certain things on YouTube without getting demonetized and flagged, but if If read the transcripts, if you thought of the age of the the victims and the girls who were abused, again, think of your daughter, your granddaughter, your sister at that at that age, and if you think of of the level of of torture and the atrocities that were committed against little girls in Britain, and the the the stories that those in power were turning a blind eye to, it would turn any sane person's stomach. Agreed. Well, hopefully this was useful to people.

Thank you, Samantha, again for coming on. That was very informative.